RX8 or MMM combo?

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO

I never said it will make you win more races. Its just more consistent, more perfected system. And with that you get a smaller lighter ESC, and super nice motors, rebuildable, and have solder tabs (which I like)

I think you took my comment the wrong way. This was not a stab at you and/or other people who use and like the RX8 but more a statement to help out unsullied_spy.

Originally Posted by Aceldama

I've found plenty of genuine 1515 series motors that are not sealed. And a lot of them used crimped end bells as well rather than screw captured.

I would really like to see proof of this as I have never seen nor heard of it. It's a rather bold claim without anything to back it up.

If you race, the Tekin system is just leagues better than the MMM. It is smoother and more consistent from start up to braking. It also doesn't have hardly any drag on the motor too, so freewheeling is a lot easier too which helps in those tight sections of the track. I also believe it is a more durable system that can take the abuse of 1/8 racing. The solder tabs prevent damage to the windings. The motors run just as cool as the Neus, plus being sealed helps. The ESC runs ice cold as well, but the case is better built so it is more durable overall. Not too mention much easier to replace the fan. I The motors are just as efficient, if not moreso than the Neus.

The MMM is perfect if all you are doing is bashing around. Save the 70 bucks and get an extra Zippy lipo or something.

However, if you have any thoughts of racing, the Tekin system stands by itself right now and is worth the $70 premium. Without question.

Again, nothing against the MMM. I ran MMM all last year with great success and much of this year until the cases started failing on me taking out my ESCs with it. The MMM is a great system, but I think Tekin just perfected all the little flaws of the MMM.

To me, I rather pay the $70 premium and not have to worry... but that is just me.

[e-mike]

dont forget guy's that tekin had a year more than castle,,,,so release a esc one year after a competitor can give a chance to improve more and reliable feature....so both system are very good...and i think that each one have to do the right choice....

me im sold to castle..but i cant wait more to try this new controller

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Edumakated

I The motors are just as efficient, if not moreso than the Neus.

I still find these claims irrelevant without any numbers to back them up. Neu has been in the BL motor business much longer than tekin with a VERY proven track record across the board from planes, to helis, to boats, to cars.

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

If you're talking about the sealed part, I own a Neu motor with holes in it. I do believe they also came crimped a few years ago but they switched to the screws a while back.

I was talking about the crimped part. I have followed neu motors for several years via plane guys I know and have never seen one with a crimped can. The sealed part is just plain silly as the motors with the holes in them where not originally built for off road use. However, the Tekno neus and CC neus which are built for off road use are sealed so the point really seems moot.

I get these guys like their tekin systems, I like my tekin I use in my scale crawler. While they are nice ESC's I do not find them "way better" than what CC produces. Another thing about the size factor is that CC attached the capacitors to their ESC's from the factory and that is reflected in their size specs. However tekin requires that you attach the capacitor(s) yourself and thus does not factor that into their size specs. I also much prefer the bullet connectors to the solder posts hands down.

Again I would also like to see how smooth the tekin runs a completely sensorless motor. Or we can wait for the MM Pro and compare then......

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I still find these claims irrelevant without any numbers to back them up. Neu has been in the BL motor business much longer than tekin with a VERY proven track record across the board from planes, to helis, to boats, to cars.



I was talking about the crimped part. I have followed neu motors for several years via plane guys I know and have never seen one with a crimped can. The sealed part is just plain silly as the motors with the holes in them where not originally built for off road use. However, the Tekno neus and CC neus which are built for off road use are sealed so the point really seems moot.

I get these guys like their tekin systems, I like my tekin I use in my scale crawler. While they are nice ESC's I do not find them "way better" than what CC produces. Another thing about the size factor is that CC attached the capacitors to their ESC's from the factory and that is reflected in their size specs. However tekin requires that you attach the capacitor(s) yourself and thus does not factor that into their size specs. I also much prefer the bullet connectors to the solder posts hands down.

Again I would also like to see how smooth the tekin runs a completely sensorless motor. Or we can wait for the MM Pro and compare then......

It seems as nothing anyone tells you from their experience with both systems is going to matter. You obviously are 100% sold on the MMM. Like I said, if you are just bashing around with your MMM, it will serve you well. However, those of us that race have found the Tekin system to be better suited for the track.

I will be putting both my buggy & truggy through the paces on a a very large track this weekend ('09 ROAR Nats track) for a race and can report back more how it performs.

Regarding the efficiency comment, I compared my burn rate per minute with my Neu vs my Tekin and it is almost identical, even though the Tekin was laying down a little more power in my opinion.

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Edumakated

It seems as nothing anyone tells you from their experience with both systems is going to matter. You obviously are 100% sold on the MMM. Like I said, if you are just bashing around with your MMM, it will serve you well. However, those of us that race have found the Tekin system to be better suited for the track.

You do not read well do you. I am not dogging the tekin system, only the arrogance behind the arguments. I also own a tekin controller and like it, so how does that make me 100% sold on CC period. I could have used a sidewinder or MM for my purposes.

Originally Posted by Edumakated

Regarding the efficiency comment, I compared my burn rate per minute with my Neu vs my Tekin and it is almost identical, even though the Tekin was laying down a little more power in my opinion.

Which prove nothing as far as efficiency goes. Get some data logging done then I will pay attention. What your saying is as ridiculous as the people on the Traxxas forums who claim their single VXL revo goes X mph just by looking at it.

All I am asking for is people to post up FACT to base their arguments and opinions on.

I also will say this again, putting a sensored system up against a sensorless system and comparing smoothness is apples to oranges. Seeing as the MMM will not run sensored, I would like to see reports of how the Tekin does running completely sensorless. Or like I said it can wait until the MM Pro comes out for a more fair comparison.

Originally Posted by TexasSP

You do not read well do you. I am not dogging the tekin system, only the arrogance behind the arguments. I also own a tekin controller and like it, so how does that make me 100% sold on CC period. I could have used a sidewinder or MM for my purposes.



Which prove nothing as far as efficiency goes. Get some data logging done then I will pay attention. What your saying is as ridiculous as the people on the Traxxas forums who claim their single VXL revo goes X mph just by looking at it.

All I am asking for is people to post up FACT to base their arguments and opinions on.

I also will say this again, putting a sensored system up against a sensorless system and comparing smoothness is apples to oranges. Seeing as the MMM will not run sensored, I would like to see reports of how the Tekin does running completely sensorless. Or like I said it can wait until the MM Pro comes out for a more fair comparison.

Lighten up Francis.

You ask for people's opinions on the system and then when people give you their opinions, you find some reason to challenge their opinions. Like I said, if you are happy with the MMM then by all means keep using it. It gets the job done. No one is putting the Tekin system on God like status, nor is anyone bashing the MMM. Different strokes for different folks. It ain't perfect, but based on owing both systems, I think the Tekin has upped the bar. If you feel differently, then keep running the MMM.

However, as someone who has owned about 7 MMM and 8 different Neu motors over the past year that I have used for racing, I think I am qualified to make a unbiased judgement on the performance of the systems in the real world. I lost count of the thousands I spend each year screwing around with different crap to see what works and doesn't. I don't mind giving my unbiased opinion as I have no horse in the race. It either works or it doesn't.

Do I have a data logger hooked up? Nope, but I don't think one is needed when I raced one weekend with a Neu 1515 2.5d/MMM in my Truggy and then race again the following weekend and the only thing that changes is the ESC/Motor - same exact track layout, same batteries, same car, same bad driving. Measuring what I took out of a full charged pack vs what I put back after a qualifier gives me a fairly accurate measure as to the efficiency of the system in the real world. Particularly when I do this over three timed qualifiers and and a main. I hardly think this is the same as a 13 year claiming thier VXL hit 80 with a 7 cell nimh pack.

Will the rx8 hold up to the season of racing? I don't know, but I am about to find out. However, given the performance after a weekend of racing the snot out of it, I am confident it will.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I would really like to see proof of this as I have never seen nor heard of it. It's a rather bold claim without anything to back it up.

If you're talking about the sealed part, I own a Neu motor with holes in it. I do believe they also came crimped a few years ago but they switched to the screws a while back.

[Aceldama]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I would really like to see proof of this as I have never seen nor heard of it. It's a rather bold claim without anything to back it up.

I'm not making stuff up because I hate Neu or anything. I was just in the position of trying to piece together a reasonably priced 6s system using a MMM which basically meant I was trying to find a deal on a genuine Neu or a Medusa since CC only has the 2200kv motor. I ended up finding some decent deals on some Neus but they were usually crimped end bells, or open to debris, or both.

Non sealed:


This one looks like non-screw captured:


The Tekin system is expensive, no question about it. But at least they're offering a true 6s solution with their combos. If you want a properly rated KV motor for 6s with the MMM you either get a Medusa (non sealed, pressed endbell) or buck up for a real Neu which makes it even more expensive than the Tekin combo.

[E-Revonut]

Originally Posted by Aceldama

I'm not making stuff up because I hate Neu or anything. I was just in the position of trying to piece together a reasonably priced 6s system using a MMM which basically meant I was trying to find a deal on a genuine Neu or a Medusa since CC only has the 2200kv motor. I ended up finding some decent deals on some Neus but they were usually crimped end bells, or open to debris, or both.

Non sealed:


This one looks like non-screw captured:


The Tekin system is expensive, no question about it. But at least they're offering a true 6s solution with their combos. If you want a properly rated KV motor for 6s with the MMM you either get a Medusa (non sealed, pressed endbell) or buck up for a real Neu which makes it even more expensive than the Tekin combo.

Original Neus are open because they where designed for heli, airplane, and marine applications where dirt isn't present. A couple pieces of aluminum foil tape takes care of this, just as I have done on my Medusas. As for crimped ends, I have no idea where your getting that from because that pic doesn't show the back. The front is part of the can itself and I assure you that the back is not crimped/pressed/glued on, it is a Neu and it is screwed on. I do agree though that it is great that Tekin has multiple motor choices. I would have bought one if they where out a month ago.

[Aceldama]

Originally Posted by E-Revonut

Original Neus are open because they where designed for heli, airplane, and marine applications where dirt isn't present. A couple pieces of aluminum foil tape takes care of this, just as I have done on my Medusas. As for crimped ends, I have no idea where your getting that from because that pic doesn't show the back. The front is part of the can itself and I assure you that the back is not crimped/pressed/glued on, it is a Neu and it is screwed on. I do agree though that it is great that Tekin has multiple motor choices. I would have bought one if they where out a month ago.

Well, I was under the impression that the smooth can 1515s that offshore electrics had weren't screw captured. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. The open-ness of the motor isn't a huge deal since you can just tape it, I had planned on doing that if I got a Neu.

But then I figured, if I'm going to pay $400 for the MMM + a Neu motor then I might as well just get the Tekin system and try it out.

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Aceldama

The Tekin system is expensive, no question about it. But at least they're offering a true 6s solution with their combos. If you want a properly rated KV motor for 6s with the MMM you either get a Medusa (non sealed, pressed endbell) or buck up for a real Neu which makes it even more expensive than the Tekin combo.

So am I to understand that you have actually tried the 2200 CC motor yourself and this is from your personal experience?

Or is this just what you heard?

Based on what I have seen Patrick say the motor was set to be what is the most efficient setup and you change the voltage and/or programming to suit your needs.

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I think you took my comment the wrong way. This was not a stab at you and/or other people who use and like the RX8 but more a statement to help out unsullied_spy.



I would really like to see proof of this as I have never seen nor heard of it. It's a rather bold claim without anything to back it up.

my old 1.5d had no screws in the back end, ive seen a couple others also that popped off, so they just drilled holes and put screws in