60C really?

[jpoprock]

Well, I can't entirely disagree with you. I don't think your reasoning is off base at all really, but it's going to take a lot of time, effort, and testing to prove them wrong... right for that matter. Not to mention all the public smearing that will need to happen if u prove them to be full of it.

I guess what I was trying to imply, was that some of those companies I named have a HIGH suck factor, but have the power to crush the nay sayers. So what is the point? I agree that MA is no GM, so they are ripe for the picking if the claims are bogus. And I think the point is, they rewrote the rules (that don't exsist) to hype up their packs to those that don't realize it's not likely to be possible? Right?

It may not be possoble to damage their reputation at this point, but all is fair in love and war I guess. But don't assume they didn't see the backlash coming from this. They probably said, "those guys at RCM are going to have a fit!" They were right!

[nitrostarter]

Herein lies my issue with this new rating system MA is using. Nothing but Rookie problems and misunderstanding.

This is a quote from another forum, I have NOT altered it in anyway.

Hey, I've been looking into the lipo batteries at hobbycity and maxamps and I'm not sure what to get. I could spend $200 and get a maxamps waterproof lipo or get a rhino pack for around $30. Whatever I get I want it to fit in my rustler vxl's battery tray with no mods, because I don't want it weakened. Maxamps says there lipos are 60c but the rhino is only 30c here's the link to both of them.

maxamps-
http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.ph...Pack-T&cat=194

rhino-
http://hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store...idProduct=7365

I know the rhino is only 2250 mah but I want it to fit so had to go with a low mah.Do you guys think the rhino battery would hold up pretty good or not and if it has a lot of power or not? Also how much run time do you think it would give me?
Thanks

My issue here it that these kids are going to the 60C BURST rating here and think its the same as the 30C CONTINUOUS rating. The proof is in the pudding on this claim. And I'm sure this isn't the only guy I have noticed.

Honestly, changing the rating system sounds like a ploy to take advantage of the misinformed. They see the "60C" rating printed on the pack and think this is one hell of a pack if rated at 60C, think of it as a continuous rating of course. Just seems like another advertising plot thats going to mislead people into misunderstood buying. Sure they can read the specs underneath, but do you really think most truly understand what they mean. They see the 60C printed on the label and think thats a wrap.

Any comments? Questions Concerns?

[hoober]

Originally Posted by nitrostarter

Herein lies my issue with this new rating system MA is using. Nothing but Rookie problems and misunderstanding.

This is a quote from another forum, I have NOT altered it in anyway.




My issue here it that these kids are going to the 60C BURST rating here and think its the same as the 30C CONTINUOUS rating. The proof is in the pudding on this claim. And I'm sure this isn't the only guy I have noticed.

Honestly, changing the rating system sounds like a ploy to take advantage of the misinformed. They see the "60C" rating printed on the pack and think this is one hell of a pack if rated at 60C, think of it as a continuous rating of course. Just seems like another advertising plot thats going to mislead people into misunderstood buying. Sure they can read the specs underneath, but do you really think most truly understand what they mean. They see the 60C printed on the label and think thats a wrap.

Any comments? Questions Concerns?

Honestly , I took it the same way. Many of the batts say 60C burst, The ones we are talking about testing say 60 and 70C. The current is there as well. Then many of the batts list the "constant" and "sustained" and "burst"

I'm guessing it is an oversight (mistake) since a similar pack shows this

25C Constant(105 amps)
35C Sustained(147 amps)
60C Burst(252 amps)

I'm also guessing that a fair current on the "70C" packs would be around 30-35C , but am willing to pull them at whichever current Austin feels is safe. Get the info right from the "man" so to speak.

Originally Posted by nitrostarter

Herein lies my issue with this new rating system MA is using. Nothing but Rookie problems and misunderstanding.

This is a quote from another forum, I have NOT altered it in anyway.




My issue here it that these kids are going to the 60C BURST rating here and think its the same as the 30C CONTINUOUS rating. The proof is in the pudding on this claim. And I'm sure this isn't the only guy I have noticed.

Honestly, changing the rating system sounds like a ploy to take advantage of the misinformed. They see the "60C" rating printed on the pack and think this is one hell of a pack if rated at 60C, think of it as a continuous rating of course. Just seems like another advertising plot thats going to mislead people into misunderstood buying. Sure they can read the specs underneath, but do you really think most truly understand what they mean. They see the 60C printed on the label and think thats a wrap.

Any comments? Questions Concerns?

That is exactly what I was thinking. Most noobs to lipo read the new rating system and have not a clues to what it means. All they see is the 60C in MA's advertising and on the label.

[hoober]

Austin may be able/willing to define the terms constant,burst, and sustained as well. One thing is for sure:

During testing one can tell very quickly when to "stop" raising the current. Things start to get very hot.

[hoober]

Even those of us who think we know what it means , don't know what it means. The burden of interpretation of a text is always placed upon the author of that text. In this case is maxamps. That brings up the question to Austin.

Austin what is meant by the various terms listed on the website? Thank you.

sustained,constant,burst, ect. Then again, maybe we do.

It is possible I overlooked the definition and hopefully we all don't need help with the numbers in front of the terms or the terms which are very well defined by the industry.

[suicideneil]

I think I need to amend my Tutorials page somehow....

But yeah, constant ansd sustained mean the same thing to me- its the maximum amount of current a lipo can put out without dropping below below an acceptable voltage level, 3.2v per cell for arguments sake, and without heating up beyond 120*F with good airflow (the 130*F MA states in various places is simply too high, and thats not an opinion).

Im curious about the specifics of the new rating system myself, and of the old one too for that matter.

[TexasSP]

I think most of these suggestions are really fair and well thought out. At this point I do not see how anyone could take them negatively or feel that they are being bashed upon.

Again I will point toward the CC forum and Patrick Del Castillo. When he disagrees with something whether by opinion or fact there is always a detailed explanation of why with many facts to back that up. Case in point his belief in why sensorless is superior to sensored and/or why ESC constant amp ratings are so arbitrary. A lot of the issues coincide directly with the lipo rating issues and many are directly correlated.

[pasan]

I'm a n00b, having gotten into the hobby in April of last year. When I was researching LiPos, the first manufacturer I came across was MA. I was smitten by the vivid claims (the 8000mAh VXL packages had just been released, and I was considering a Rustler VXL), and for a while thought they were the shiznit. I could find very little information about anything else, and it just became a hassle digging for info about other packs. The points suicideneil, nitrostarter and others made about n00bs is quite valid and indeed applies to the majority, now more than ever considering how many brushless RTRs are in the market now. Flashy ads appeal to the consumerist mentality in all of us, and more so in the layperson who maybe looking for information in a new and unknown product. So it's only logical that MA probably has garnered the most exposure through their extensive (and I have to admit quite appealing) ad campaigns, and its small wonder that they were voted best by RCCA readers.

Further, being of a consumerist mentality results in quite a bit of scepticism towards any other similar competing product they're exposed to unless they have the "magic" factor in them (in MA's case their 60C rating). If the only difference is price and anecdotal evidence (the latter would often have to be dug up from public forums and/or 3rd part product reviews), a cheaper product would equate to a lower quality product (it's the same battery but cheaper, they must be cutting corners/QC is done by chimps/etc) and a more expensive product with inflated prices and greed (it's a frickin battery, all it does is provide power for my toys). This applies to RC just as much as it would to any other consumer product, and the reality is that RC is way more accessible to the casual user than it was 10 years ago, which has created plenty of casual users with money to spend, who want a novel remote controlled toy that goes 50mph and does standing backflips.

So my point is, partial knowledge is much more damagin in the long run that not knowing at all, and I sincerely hope the whole C rating issue is sorted out before someone gets hurt through the misinterpretation of technical jargon.

[rawfuls]

^Agreed

[TexasSP]

Good post pasan

[suicideneil]

Epic.

There is a dire lack of review sites for the RC hobby; when I was researching my Digital camera choice, I was quickly able to find several online review sites listing every major model released by all the different known (and unknown) companies dating back several years. After a few hours of reading and cross referencing, I arrived at a decision based on helpful and honest reviews, with indepth testing and no favouritism towards any particular brand- you could also see user reviews along with the experts own opinion to see if they all had the same view.

With R/C, you have to rely on magazine adverts and sketchy reviews that are based on personal bias (remember the nitro vs electric revo conversion? the nitro won because the testers felt that the BL revo had too much power; clearly they knew nothing of proper setup or driving technique for the two different platforms) and gut feelings without any proper consistant or meaningful testing (lipo shoot out carried out with vastly differing lipo packs for example).

The best place to go for reviews are forums at present, which is good, but it still isnt the same as a dedicated review center with a well laid out data base of results based on consistant testing (use an appropriate vehicle and motor for each class of lipo (voltage/mah/C rating), based on bench testing with a CBA load tester, and an indoor track that can recreate the same loads and current spikes of normal running- real world results along with bench testing).

[whitrzac]

Originally Posted by suicideneil

Epic.

There is a dire lack of review sites for the RC hobby; when I was researching my Digital camera choice, I was quickly able to find several online review sites listing every major model released by all the different known (and unknown) companies dating back several years. After a few hours of reading and cross referencing, I arrived at a decision based on helpful and honest reviews, with indepth testing and no favouritism towards any particular brand- you could also see user reviews along with the experts own opinion to see if they all had the same view.

With R/C, you have to rely on magazine adverts and sketchy reviews that are based on personal bias (remember the nitro vs electric revo conversion? the nitro won because the testers felt that the BL revo had too much power; clearly they knew nothing of proper setup or driving technique for the two different platforms) and gut feelings without any proper consistant or meaningful testing (lipo shoot out carried out with vastly differing lipo packs for example).

The best place to go for reviews are forums at present, which is good, but it still isnt the same as a dedicated review center with a well laid out data base of results based on consistant testing (use an appropriate vehicle and motor for each class of lipo (voltage/mah/C rating), based on bench testing with a CBA load tester, and an indoor track that can recreate the same loads and current spikes of normal running- real world results along with bench testing).

how many people buy camaras every year?? how many people buy rc stuff??


we can all dream

[suicideneil]

If it makes you feel better, it only cost ~£229 / $366...

[Mentat]

to settle this once and for all we should DONATE some packs and have them tested by someone here on RCM. I would be willing to donate a Thunder Power 5000mAh 4s1p 40c for testing purposes, provided i got it back once testing is completed. There are several here that i would trust to do this. Thoughts, suggestions? Lets do this and get some REAL WORLD feedback on these CLAIMS!