Mmm V2 Up In Smoke !!!

Got my MMM last week. Installed it and race this last weekend with everything running great. Convienced the MMM is a keeper I decided to pop the lid and make some of the mods mentioned in these forums. I unplugged the fan and ran the wiring directly to my receiver's ch3. I made the lid's opening a little bigger for the wires and that's about it. I plugged everything in and I get nothing from the MMM;ie no arming. I raced it last weekend and it did fine. I switched out receivers and do difference. Thinking maybe the switch went bad, I cut it off and soldered the two wires together and still nothing. I checked the batteries (the RX and the main) both are charged. Steering servo and fan works fine just no arming of the MMM. I've disabled the BEC and using power from 2S RX lipo (was doing that before with the MMM and it ran fine). When connected to Castle Link, the software still sees the MMM and can write to it. Any ideas?
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Jammin X1CR, Neu 1512/1.5D, MMM/MM, NO BEC
XTM/XT2, Nemesis XL, Hydra120, NO BEC
2 FireFox 4s 3700, 2 Neu 4s 5000

[NovakTwo]

Maybe we all need a refresher on how ROAR works:

Some company needs to submit a comprehensive, written proposal to ROAR. In the situation of changing the mod brushless rules, that proposal would then be sent to the entire brushless motor committee--consisting of reps from all the companies who manufacture or market BL motors aimed at ROAR-type racing.

Then all of those companies are given an opportunity to comment on the new proposal. At some point, the reps are required to vote and agree on the changes. Those changes are presented to the EXCOM of ROAR which then decides to accept, or reject the suggestions from the BL motor committee. If the new rule is accepted, then it is published by ROAR and included in the next rule-book.

On its own, ROAR does not just make random, new rules whenever it feels like it.

As far as I know, all BL companies that wanted to offer approved motors---even Trinity, Hacker and SpeedPassion---tooled up motors that would conform to the rules. Feigao, OEM motor maker to the world , managed to convert whatever motors they were selling to approved versions.

[suicideneil]

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

Then all of those companies are given an opportunity to comment on the new proposal. At some point, the reps are required to vote and agree on the changes.

This is the problem part I reckon. Most, if not all the companies that have built ROAR approved motors, have a design that is a clone more of less of the novak motors, or feigao & LRP sensored design; they are all 99% identical- nothing even comes close to looking like your typical castle or sensorless feigao type motors. Those kinda designs just cant meet the requirements, so everyone has to follow novak or LRPs lead when designing a new motor for ROAR racing.
The other issue I see is that if castle or neu for example wanted to introduce one of their more typical motor designs that is, as I can attest to, much more powerful than the equivalent sized ROAR legal motors, who in their right mind on that committee (who isnt a rep for castle or neu) would vote to allow the more powerful design to be accepted that could easily beat theirs in a race?

[NovakTwo]

Originally Posted by suicideneil

This is the problem part I reckon. Most, if not all the companies that have built ROAR approved motors, have a design that is a clone more of less of the novak motors, or feigao & LRP sensored design; they are all 99% identical- nothing even comes close to looking like your typical castle or sensorless feigao type motors. Those kinda designs just cant meet the requirements, so everyone has to follow novak or LRPs lead when designing a new motor for ROAR racing.
The other issue I see is that if castle or neu for example wanted to introduce one of their more typical motor designs that is, as I can attest to, much more powerful than the equivalent sized ROAR legal motors, who in their right mind on that committee (who isnt a rep for castle or neu) would vote to allow the more powerful design to be accepted that could easily beat theirs in a race?

You raise several good points. Why should the existing members of the BL motor committee vote to include a slotless motor design and what would happen if more powerful motors were approved. As I said, I have absolutely no insight into the thinking of ROAR, other members of the motor committee or top sponsored drivers.

Once companies have a vested interest, or significant investment, in existing technology (such as sensored motors) changing the rules does become more difficult. ROAR is nominally an organization run by, and for, racers. Unfortunately, few members volunteer, so the organization is chronically undermanned.

But once slotless motors are approved, they too will be subject to stringent specifications. ROAR is an organization of rules so there will be rules for them, too. If the slotless motors are more desired by customers, manufacturers will simply switch over to building slotless motors. A new motor arms race will ensue.

I wonder whether top racers (touring) even want more powerful motors. the 3.5T motors with lipo are already more powerful than most racers can handle. At that level, it is precise controllability that wins races, not all out power. Many racers want to compete based on their own skill and experience as drivers. They want equipment that enhances their ability and most superb drivers can win using existing equipment manufactured by any company.

[killajb]

Obviously ROAR is behind the curve, whoever had a hand in writing the rules. Stock and Modified is all the regulation we need. If you can haul your ride around a track for a full race with a gazillion rpm/v motor and a 2 mega-amp lipo battery without overheating AND keep it upright, I'm willing to call you a winner ..sensored or sensorless.

[marzac2]

Originally Posted by killajb

Obviously ROAR is behind the curve, whoever had a hand in writing the rules. Stock and Modified is all the regulation we need. If you can haul your ride around a track for a full race with a gazillion rpm/v motor and a 2 mega-amp lipo battery without overheating AND keep it upright, I'm willing to call you a winner ..sensored or sensorless.

Well said...

The rules are set-up to benefit the industry manufacturers (and from the post above, only a few lucky manufacturers are invited to play), not the racers.

If it were to benefit the racers and or help out with speeding up the "tech" process at major races, than it wouldn't be a huge book of rules and regulations. Just cover the most common rules and if someone happens to win with a homemade super juiced up rocket ship of a car, than more power to them for being able to pilot it to victory.

[phatmonk]

So Patrick do I need to mod my new MMM V2 to keep the fan wire from being cut by whatever.

[phatmonk]

So should I set my endpoints with a a Spektrum dx2.0 at 100% with the MMM V2?And what happens if you dont.

[bdebde]

Originally Posted by phatmonk

So Patrick do I need to mod my new MMM V2 to keep the fan wire from being cut by whatever.

Originally Posted by phatmonk

So should I set my endpoints with a a Spektrum dx2.0 at 100% with the MMM V2?And what happens if you dont.

^^++1??

[phatmonk]

Originally Posted by bdebde

^^++1??

Sorry I dont have my secret decoder ring.Please explain in Human

[bdebde]

Originally Posted by phatmonk

Sorry I dont have my secret decoder ring.Please explain in Human

I just wanted answers to the same questions.

[suicideneil]

So Patrick do I need to mod my new MMM V2 to keep the fan wire from being cut by whatever.

No, not ordinarily- feel free to pop open the esc case to check the wires arent being pinched- no biggie, and a simple mod to do with a dremel to create a little clearance in the esc case- dont touch the PCB though.

So should I set my endpoints with a a Spektrum dx2.0 at 100% with the MMM V2?And what happens if you dont.

Yes. if you dont, the esc will be looking for 100% throttle, but wont see it since the radio is set to 120%. I had the same issue with my lazer 6 radio and hvmaxx system; the esc wouldnt 'see' 100% throttle during programming until I dialled down the EPA setting a touch.

[phatmonk]

Originally Posted by suicideneil

No, not ordinarily- feel free to pop open the esc case to check the wires arent being pinched- no biggie, and a simple mod to do with a dremel to create a little clearance in the esc case- dont touch the PCB though.



Yes. if you dont, the esc will be looking for 100% throttle, but wont see it since the radio is set to 120%. I had the same issue with my lazer 6 radio and hvmaxx system; the esc wouldnt 'see' 100% throttle during programming until I dialled down the EPA setting a touch.

Thanks Dude I can do that.

[BrianG]

In this corner, we have Pdelcast, weighing in at XXX lbs. In the other corner, we have NovakTwo weighing in at YYY lbs....

Let's get ready to rummmmbllllle! DING!

[NovakTwo]

Originally Posted by BrianG

In this corner, we have Pdelcast, weighing in at XXX lbs. In the other corner, we have NovakTwo weighing in at YYY lbs....

Let's get ready to rummmmbllllle! DING!

Before I start rumblin, let me say this..I am no apologist for ROAR. Nor, is anyone else here at Novak. ROAR is what it is.

The first time we approached them for an approval was for the original brushless motor rule. Even then, the only reason we got a hearing was, by that time, Associated had worked with LRP to offer a motor based on Novak's sensored design. So, Roger Curtis and Mike Reedy (Associated) are the individuals that spearheaded the first ROAR ruling, not Novak. We joke that without their participation, racers would still be racing brush motors. Novak had absolutely no track record, or pull, with ROAR, or any other racing organization. I believe Reedy (a god to modified racing) was the president of IFMAR at that time.