MMM availibility date dropped!

[starscream]

Originally Posted by Haldir

I can buy 7 feigay motors for the price of one neu.

I'm pretty sure you meant feigao motors

Price is a big issue for many people but if you are looking for a high performance system for racing then you will most likely end up paying a premium to stay competitve. The NEU motors are very efficient and if they can handle the higher rpm range as well then they will be very versitile as well. The Mega motors are another alternative for those with tighter pockets but want better quality than the feigao type motors.

I think if I were to do it over I would have gone for a 1512 instead of a 1515 for racing because I just can't utilize all the power available from the 1515 and I may have squeezed some extra runtime as well

I use a Mega motor for my smaller 1/10th vehicles

[highflier]

Originally Posted by starscream

I use a Mega motor for my smaller 1/10th vehicles

Which mega on the 1/10 scale?

Highflier

[starscream]

Originally Posted by highflier

Which mega on the 1/10 scale?

Highflier

I am using the ACn22/35/1 which is overkill for a 1/10 ST but like my previous posts suggest, I usually go overboard when it comes to power.

ANy ACn22 series motors will work great in 1/10th scale car/trucks:
ACn22/50/* MT or 1/8th scale
ACn22/45/* MT or 1/8th scale
ACn22/35/* MT or 1/8th scale or large 1/10th scale
ACn22/30/* MT or 1/8th scale or large 1/10th scale
Car8+ MT or 1/8th scale or large 1/10th scale
Car8 MT or 1/8th scale or large 1/10th scale
Car8 Pro MT or 1/8th scale or large 1/10th scale
Car10 1/10th or 1/12th scale Car or Truck
Car10Pro 1/10th or 1/12th scale Car or Truck
ACn22/20/* 1/10th or 1/12th scale Car or Truck
ACn22/10/* 1/10th or 1/12th scale car or truck
ACn16/20/* 1/10th or 1/12th scale car or truck
ACn16/25/* 1/10th or 1/12th scale car or truck
Car 16 1/10th or 1/12th scale car or truck

The above is my personal reccomendations but you can check the specs for each at http://www.megamotorsusa.com/

[cart213]

Originally Posted by lutach

I can get them for bellow that if I buy 100 units and that was in 2005. I'm sure I can get it for less if I try negotiating a bit.

Sure, but not many people buy motors in bulk!

[sleebus.jones]

Originally Posted by Dagger Thrasher

I don't think they would. There are a LOT of other RC'ers out there who aren't brushless-brains, and who just want a powerful system to drop into their E-Maxx, for example.

Yep, I agree 100%. I'm betting a lot of these setups are going to drop into the new 16.8v Emaxx. What's 16.8 * 2200?

Well golly gee, it's 36960 RPM.

I think that was most likely the reason for the motor choice with the package. I would say that more than likely the majority of MMM owners won't start off with a 5S LiPo pack. They probably won't spend $300 on a MMM and then $200 on a pack for it. That's more than the cost of the truck right there. But a 2200 will work well with a 14S NiMH setup, and be insane on LiPo when they do make the plunge...kinda like how the MM is now.

I'm pretty sure they'll introduce lower KV motors later. I know they came out with the 6900Kv after the MM launched. It's certainly possible for the MMM.

Sleeb

[SpEEdyBL]

There is nothing wrong with high rpms with a quality motor. My novak hv4.5 for example is rated at 4800 kv unloaded. To be fair, I assume it drops to 3800-4000 kv under a load - still 55,000+ rpm on 4s. Geared properly, it's a touch faster than an overgeared 8xl at 20/51 in my ofna mbx which heated both the motor and the mamba max to 195 degrees in less than 5 minutes. I tested the limits of the novak motor and I got it to thermal in my 8ight geared 12/46 after 9 minutes of speed passes and the motor was only 160 degrees.

Neu motors are very similar internally to novak motors, so im sure they will be able to handle high rpm just find. IMO, the 2200 kv neu motor is very versatile. 2200 kv seems to be about right to be able to use almost the whole range of pinion gears on 4s. Gear down if you want less power. Then if you do want power, you can run 6s no problem. Since the neu motors are so much more efficient than feigao motors, you don't need to run 6s to keep things cool. 6s is only needed for maximum power.

[ssspconcepts]

Originally Posted by cart213

A 1515 is about $280. Where can you get an XL Feigao for $40?

Actually, I noticed that Neu is now selling the 1515 series motors for $245 smooth can and $255 for finned can versions. Not bad.

[Sower]

Originally Posted by SpEEdyBL

There is nothing wrong with high rpms with a quality motor. My novak hv4.5 for example is rated at 4800 kv unloaded. To be fair, I assume it drops to 3800-4000 kv under a load - still 55,000+ rpm on 4s. Geared properly, it's a touch faster than an overgeared 8xl at 20/51 in my ofna mbx which heated both the motor and the mamba max to 195 degrees in less than 5 minutes. I tested the limits of the novak motor and I got it to thermal in my 8ight geared 12/46 after 9 minutes of speed passes and the motor was only 160 degrees.

Neu motors are very similar internally to novak motors, so im sure they will be able to handle high rpm just find. IMO, the 2200 kv neu motor is very versatile. 2200 kv seems to be about right to be able to use almost the whole range of pinion gears on 4s. Gear down if you want less power. Then if you do want power, you can run 6s no problem. Since the neu motors are so much more efficient than feigao motors, you don't need to run 6s to keep things cool. 6s is only needed for maximum power.

The only thing I can say here is that the intention for most people to go with the 6s vs 4s isn't the "more power" argument as much as efficiency. By reducing the amp draw with higher voltage things just run better. I have no problem with the 2200 motor except on 6s. Some people may be fine with it, but I feel it's outside the motor's ideal efficiency. Especially if you're looking to race. Otherwise I'm sure you could have a lot of fun with it. I mean heck, who wouldn't think it's cool to see a 1/8 truggy blasting by you at 70mph?

[johnrobholmes]

Originally Posted by Sower

I have no problem with the 2200 motor except on 6s. Some people may be fine with it, but I feel it's outside the motor's ideal efficiency. Especially if you're looking to race.

So I assume you are on the design team and have seen the efficiency curves then huh? So much speculation here when in fact NONE of us know jack about the motor other than KV. Knowing Castle's track record, I seriously doubt they would suggest 6s on a motor unless it runs good. If the efficiency suffers, then it will show up as extra heat when the rig is geared for the same final speed.

[SpEEdyBL]

Originally Posted by Sower

The only thing I can say here is that the intention for most people to go with the 6s vs 4s isn't the "more power" argument as much as efficiency. By reducing the amp draw with higher voltage things just run better. I have no problem with the 2200 motor except on 6s. Some people may be fine with it, but I feel it's outside the motor's ideal efficiency. Especially if you're looking to race. Otherwise I'm sure you could have a lot of fun with it. I mean heck, who wouldn't think it's cool to see a 1/8 truggy blasting by you at 70mph?

Like I said, the neu motors are efficient enough that you dont need to worry about running it in their "efficiency range." That was only true for feigao motors. At most power levels you don't need 6s to still have a very efficient setup. The mmm will still handle the amp draw of a powerful 4s setup (btw if the mmm can handle its own motor on 6s, it definately can handle same motor on 4s). That said, I don't see why people would have any problems running the 2200 on 4s for racing. As motors and escs advance, the benefit of running 6s vs 4s at a given power level becomes less and less, especially when the amp rates are well within the escs range. Although power loss is rI^2, the resistance of the motor increases by the square as kv increases. So a 1515 1.5y on 6s is theoretically going to create the same amount of heat as a 1515 1y on 4s at the same power level, because the 1.5y has 2.25 times the resistance.

Benefits of running 4s vs 6s are:

1. Bigger lipo cells holder ther voltage better C wise. So a 6000 mah 4s pack made up of 6000 mah cells is going to hold a higher voltage per cell at 60 amps than a 4000 mah 6s pack at 40 amps.

2. There is less of a possibility for one cell to go below the safe voltage in a 4s pack than in a 6s pack, unless you moniter each cell individually (most cutoffs dont).

In the end, you really do only need 6s for power. Is it better to have two motors or two packs? You can charge one while running the other if you do have two packs. I can only see the 1515 1.5 being absolutely necessary if the 1y is already too much on 4s.

[Just go Play]

Up front I admit to being somewhat clueless about the detailed workings of electric motors so please excuse me if I'm missing something.

Originally Posted by SpEEdyBL

Although power loss is rI^2, the resistance of the motor increases by the square as kv increases. So a 1515 1.5y on 6s is theoretically going to create the same amount of heat as a 1515 1y on 4s at the same power level, because the 1.5y has 2.25 times the resistance.

The spec sheet that I have for Neu 1515 motors shows the 1Y rated at 110 max amps with an internal resistance of .006 while the 1.5Y is rated 70 max amps and .011 internal resistance. This equates to the 1.5Y having 1.83 times the resistance of the 1Y.

Based on the spec sheet the 1.5Y would have a power loss of 53.9 and the 1Y 72.6. While they are close the 1.5Y appears to be noticeably more efficient. Like I mentioned it is entirely possible that there are other considerations that make this not as simple as I think it is.

Originally Posted by SpEEdyBL

Benefits of running 4s vs 6s are:

1. Bigger lipo cells holder ther voltage better C wise. So a 6000 mah 4s pack made up of 6000 mah cells is going to hold a higher voltage per cell at 60 amps than a 4000 mah 6s pack at 40 amps.

Based on user experience this sounds right but I cannot find any reliable documentation that proves it. (for that matter who has 6000mAh cells available today?) The discharge graphs proved by many pack builders seem rather questionable if there are any available at all. Whats worse is that there does not seem to be any standards when it comes to testing or rating lipo cells from one brand to another. Could you point me to any reliable data on cell discharge rates that confirms this claim?

Originally Posted by SpEEdyBL

In the end, you really do only need 6s for power. Is it better to have two motors or two packs? You can charge one while running the other if you do have two packs. I can only see the 1515 1.5 being absolutely necessary if the 1y is already too much on 4s.

I really don't think that this is a valid argument. Both motors are capable of creating almost the same amount of power at simular RPM's. I also don't think that anyone can reasonably argue that low voltage high current is more efficient than high voltage low current setups. If this was the case then everyone would be building rc's with ultra high kv motors to run on 7.4v packs right?

[DrKnow65]

No "for sure" awnsers from me JGP, but I am impressed with your posting skills :)

I believe the consideration for me (aside from all numbers) is the idea that 2200kv motor is a good base for 4S-6S systems. I agree the rpm's are high for 6S but the ideal KV motor for 6S would not perform as well at 4S. I personally would rather have an overkill on 6S than an underkill at 4S.

Would be good day to have one guy with access to EVERY lipo cell out there test them all in one particular way and post the results for the world to see. What that one particular way is, can be disputed. Let alone the idea of one guy having all the lipo's to test. Same thing for all the brushless motors.

[cart213]

I'll volunteer to do all the testing if y'all will fund my paypal account so that I can buy one of everthing!

[Sower]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

So I assume you are on the design team and have seen the efficiency curves then huh? So much speculation here when in fact NONE of us know jack about the motor other than KV. Knowing Castle's track record, I seriously doubt they would suggest 6s on a motor unless it runs good. If the efficiency suffers, then it will show up as extra heat when the rig is geared for the same final speed.

Well, no, ofcourse I'm not on the design team. And I'll admit I'm no engineer on this stuff so I could be wrong here.

All I know is that if I run this 2200kv motor on 6s it will just have too high a top speed - even if I run a 9t pinion which is the smallest you can get. Under that condition I would be hitting 60+mph. So . . . to make a long story longer, it's just not my choice since I already have my 6s battery and plan on staying with it.

My understanding was that the higher voltage meant better efficiency from lower amp draw.

[Sower]

Oh, one more thing guys . . . my comments about efficiency are also geared towards racing. Like I said, the 2200 motor on 6s has a crazy top end even with the lowest gearing - not the most efficient for racing. That's all, just my $.02.