If I was the owner, what would I do?

[Pdelcast]

Also, pretty much everyone reuses PCBs. The power board that was originally designed for the Phoenix-80 is also used for the Phoenix-60, Phx-125, Phx-180, Phx-45HV, Phx-85HV, Phx-110HV, Phx-160HV, Hydra-120, 240, 60HV, 120HV, 180HV, 240HV, etc.

That board is a 6oz / layer, 6 layer board -- for approx .060" copper -- VERY EXPENSIVE circuit board. The next heaviest board I've seen in the industry uses 3oz copper, eight layers -- 24oz vrs 36oz for our power board.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Also, pretty much everyone reuses PCBs. The power board that was originally designed for the Phoenix-80 is also used for the Phoenix-60, Phx-125, Phx-180, Phx-45HV, Phx-85HV, Phx-110HV, Phx-160HV, Hydra-120, 240, 60HV, 120HV, 180HV, 240HV, etc.

That board is a 6oz / layer, 6 layer board -- for approx .060" copper -- VERY EXPENSIVE circuit board. The next heaviest board I've seen in the industry uses 3oz copper, eight layers -- 24oz vrs 36oz for our power board.

Patrick, help me understand one thing. You have mentioned the the hardware from the controllers mentioned above are not compatible with the Mamba software right? Please explain to me in terms that a non engineer guy can understand? I see other companies transform their aircraft controllers into car controllers and I would love to get my HV110 and possibly a SHV with a car software, not the Mamba, but something simple that would allow me to use a pistol radio and be able to use a car brake as I don't have many cars with mechanical brakes. I always thought it was just as simple as changing the software.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by lutach

Patrick, help me understand one thing. You have mentioned the the hardware from the controllers mentioned above are not compatible with the Mamba software right? Please explain to me in terms that a non engineer guy can understand? I see other companies transform their aircraft controllers into car controllers and I would love to get my HV110 and possibly a SHV with a car software, not the Mamba, but something simple that would allow me to use a pistol radio and be able to use a car brake as I don't have many cars with mechanical brakes. I always thought it was just as simple as changing the software.

Well, it's the hardware on the control board that isn't compatible with the car software.

I designed the airplane controllers before the car controllers, and the car controller have some SERIOUS advancements over the airplane controllers in the sensitivity of the back-EMF circuit. (there is a patent on it too -- just got finalized.) http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0029956.html

So the car software just won't work on the airplane hardware -- different type of back-EMF sensing.

To run car software on the airplane power boards, I'd have to design a new control board for them.

But airplane power boards are really designed for airplanes - - not for the types of loads that cars put on a controller -- our car controllers ALSO use very heavy copper (6/6 on the MM, 6/6 + 4/3 on the MMM) but are designed to handle short term overload currents better than the airplane controllers. The MMM has the same number of FETs as the Phx-80, but handles over double the surge current and over double the continuous current. Part of that difference is the fan/heatsink, but the majority is the copper layout and current path copper total. The Phx-80 was designed to be light weight and compact, the MMM was designed to handle serious current surge and power.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Well, it's the hardware on the control board that isn't compatible with the car software.

I designed the airplane controllers before the car controllers, and the car controller have some SERIOUS advancements over the airplane controllers in the sensitivity of the back-EMF circuit. (there is a patent on it too -- just got finalized.) http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0029956.html

So the car software just won't work on the airplane hardware -- different type of back-EMF sensing.

To run car software on the airplane power boards, I'd have to design a new control board for them.

But airplane power boards are really designed for airplanes - - not for the types of loads that cars put on a controller -- our car controllers ALSO use very heavy copper (6/6 on the MM, 6/6 + 4/3 on the MMM) but are designed to handle short term overload currents better than the airplane controllers. The MMM has the same number of FETs as the Phx-80, but handles over double the surge current and over double the continuous current. Part of that difference is the fan/heatsink, but the majority is the copper layout and current path copper total. The Phx-80 was designed to be light weight and compact, the MMM was designed to handle serious current surge and power.

Ok so it has to do with the back-EMF mainly and then the amount of copper. So the SHV is the same way? Now what if the intended use for the HV and SHV controllers were to just lower the amount of AMPs used? Could it be possible for just a simple car software?

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by lutach

Ok so it has to do with the back-EMF mainly and then the amount of copper. So the SHV is the same way? Now what if the intended use for the HV and SHV controllers were to just lower the amount of AMPs used? Could it be possible for just a simple car software?

Well, the main difference between the airplane and car hardware is the smooth startup under heavy loads, and the ability to change power levels very quickly without upset of the back-EMF detection. Ever notice how most other sensorless controller bog down after cornering under heavy braking (when going from heavy brake to heavy throttle), and the Mamba doesn't? The Mamba has clean smooth starting and excellent "punch" because of the back-EMF design. I'm just not willing to compromise that high performance that the Mamba has.

I know you want a higher voltage Mamba -- I am looking into doing a 12S version, in addition to the 8S version.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Well, the main difference between the airplane and car hardware is the smooth startup under heavy loads, and the ability to change power levels very quickly without upset of the back-EMF detection. Ever notice how most other sensorless controller bog down after cornering under heavy braking (when going from heavy brake to heavy throttle), and the Mamba doesn't? The Mamba has clean smooth starting and excellent "punch" because of the back-EMF design. I'm just not willing to compromise that high performance that the Mamba has.

I know you want a higher voltage Mamba -- I am looking into doing a 12S version, in addition to the 8S version.

Actually when I had the HV110 in my truggy, it was smooth really smooth on start up. I don't know how the brakes would've worked because it was disabled. If you want, I can send my HV110 in to be a test unit (It smoked on me a while back). I will have a project coming up if I get a 1/8 scale F1 and I'm planning on using 20S A123. I also have designed a extended truggy chassis to handle 20S lipos and it would be nice to also see a SHV car controller. And yes, I'm also waiting for the 12S or 8S Monster .

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Well, the main difference between the airplane and car hardware is the smooth startup under heavy loads, and the ability to change power levels very quickly without upset of the back-EMF detection. Ever notice how most other sensorless controller bog down after cornering under heavy braking (when going from heavy brake to heavy throttle), and the Mamba doesn't? The Mamba has clean smooth starting and excellent "punch" because of the back-EMF design. I'm just not willing to compromise that high performance that the Mamba has.

I know you want a higher voltage Mamba -- I am looking into doing a 12S version, in addition to the 8S version.

Well, I would buy at least 4 of each, probably more. Just put the adjustable cc bec inside the cases, I will pay for it! And leave the circuitry for the bec seperate from the brain. For heavier vehicles hv is the only way to go, damn the r/c safety nazis!

Now, I may go out on a limb here, and correct me if I am wrong. I am guessing that the profit margin on the air escs in better than the car stuff. I know that air guys like to spend money (or are at least used to spending money) while the general r/c car owner (me not included) is a cheap ass. I see the bulk of mm systems sold with the motor, at an excellent price, and they outperform all competition. So it appears that car sales are based on good price and performance, price coming first. Easy to see why you guys made the sidewinder, better price and good performace for the average user (who generally purchases 90-95% of the stuff). So the low selling, low profit stuff that we are asking for must be paid for by the general consumer!

I suggest raising the price of everything you sell by 2 dollars. That will pay for the 8s and 12s car escs, and you can just hand them out to people like myslf and lutach! You could also sell some of them for 100% profit, and then we could all go to jamacia! It is a win - win situation! (no need to thank me, I can always come up with great ideas like this, you could have me on retainer for a small fee if you like)

[lutach]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Well, I would buy at least 4 of each, probably more. Just put the adjustable cc bec inside the cases, I will pay for it! And leave the circuitry for the bec seperate from the brain. For heavier vehicles hv is the only way to go, damn the r/c safety nazis!

Now, I may go out on a limb here, and correct me if I am wrong. I am guessing that the profit margin on the air escs in better than the car stuff. I know that air guys like to spend money (or are at least used to spending money) while the general r/c car owner (me not included) is a cheap ass. I see the bulk of mm systems sold with the motor, at an excellent price, and they outperform all competition. So it appears that car sales are based on good price and performance, price coming first. Easy to see why you guys made the sidewinder, better price and good performace for the average user (who generally purchases 90-95% of the stuff). So the low selling, low profit stuff that we are asking for must be paid for by the general consumer!

I suggest raising the price of everything you sell by 2 dollars. That will pay for the 8s and 12s car escs, and you can just hand them out to people like myslf and lutach! You could also sell some of them for 100% profit, and then we could all go to jamacia! It is a win - win situation! (no need to thank me, I can always come up with great ideas like this, you could have me on retainer for a small fee if you like)

Some of the boat guys are even talking about using the Monster Max in their boats. It would be nice to cover the surface area with one controller. We want a HV240 too . The HV240 is basically there an all it needs is a brake more suited for cars. I would ditch Jamaica for Salvador in Bahia .

[Mister-T]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Well, the main difference between the airplane and car hardware is the smooth startup under heavy loads, and the ability to change power levels very quickly without upset of the back-EMF detection. Ever notice how most other sensorless controller bog down after cornering under heavy braking (when going from heavy brake to heavy throttle), and the Mamba doesn't? The Mamba has clean smooth starting and excellent "punch" because of the back-EMF design. I'm just not willing to compromise that high performance that the Mamba has.

I know you want a higher voltage Mamba -- I am looking into doing a 12S version, in addition to the 8S version.

it' funny, I notice the behaviour on the previous software. That probably why racer dislike sensorless system, if you miss your corner you put yourself and the controller in trouble.
It was improved a lot since 1.17 anyway

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Well, the main difference between the airplane and car hardware is the smooth startup under heavy loads, and the ability to change power levels very quickly without upset of the back-EMF detection. Ever notice how most other sensorless controller bog down after cornering under heavy braking (when going from heavy brake to heavy throttle), and the Mamba doesn't? The Mamba has clean smooth starting and excellent "punch" because of the back-EMF design. I'm just not willing to compromise that high performance that the Mamba has.

I know you want a higher voltage Mamba -- I am looking into doing a 12S version, in addition to the 8S version.

Count me as a paying customer in the HV world as well.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

Count me as a paying customer in the HV world as well.

Hope it does come out and I will wait until it does.