Electric Cars: The reality

[redshift]

This about sums it up- love this clip!

[Finnster]

hahaha lol

[zeropointbug]

Let's also not forget about our other problems, such as.... did you guys know that the mere 15 largest container ships spew out as much emissions as ALL the worlds car fleet... that's almost unbelievable.

[redshift]

Truly unbelievable, but true.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/02/r...-equal-that-o/

But remember guys, it is YOU who is killing the planet.....

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Let's also not forget about our other problems, such as.... did you guys know that the mere 15 largest container ships spew out as much emissions as ALL the worlds car fleet... that's almost unbelievable.

That's crazy.. those ships are massive and do run nearly non-stop however.. so I guess not unbelievable considering all the stuff they move. All that sh!t from China has to get here somehow.

It is important to note tho that they are referring to "pollutants" and not CO2. They are talking about such things as NOx and SOx. I would presume they are using cheaper heavy (highly sulphated) crude, not the light sweet crude that is used to make car fuels.

[Finnster]

I don't know how much you want to call things conspiracies. I tend to think of things as people working toward their own self interest, and that is not always aligned with what's good for the society as a whole. Humans are not ants, and such chaotic and potentially self-destructive behavior seems endemic to our make-up. Keeps things interesting tho. ;)

There are tremendously powerful people/groups/companies that will use their vast resources to ensure the playing field is tilted to their benefit, and fear tactics, bribery, disinformation and deceit is part of a pretty basic toolkit. Trouble is sorting out everybody's BS (and everyone has some.)

[redshift]

Throw in the millions of other seagoing vessels which are almost totally unregulated, and it begins to not matter what we drive at all.

Seems almost hopeless.

But I still want my E car dammit!

[redshift]

Finnster, the mere words 'conspiracy theory' will force some people to automatically ignore whatever info the phrase is tied to, and go on their merry way.

Conditioning 101.

[rschoi_75]

Originally Posted by redshift

Not to be a richard...

Hey hey hey.... I resent that comment...

On a serious note, this was a very interesting read. It will be exciting to see what vehicles will be like 10-20 years from now if funding for alternative fuel research keeps increasing.

Also, its nice to know that there are still people in the US who can disagree yet still be civil and constructive. Especially with everything that's going on in politics now days.

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

That's the truth. I grew up with my dad having a cattle ranch as a side business of sorts. About 200-250 head usually. Being both in the city and country and different times growing up, I got doses of both sides. Early in my adult life I was a butcher for four years, it always amazed me how truly clueless people were about where their food came from. My favorite is how many people would complain about the "red water" in the meat packages and how they did not want it there. When I explained it was blood they would then proceed to ask me why we put it there. Or the old man that would always accuse us of covering up the "brown" ground beef with "red" ground beef. I and others tried to explain the oxygenation process of meat and blood turning red but it failed to make a dent.

Dang - you Texans do everything bigger don't ya....250 head as a side business?!?!? Our ranch runs 180 head on about 6000 acres (due to the regrowth speed of the grasses, we have to rotate pastures every year), but they also do corn/wheat/barley/etc.

How about the pakers that paint the meat with the red dye to make it more attractive to buyers....Fred Meyer (Kroeger) does this - even with the certifed angus they sell.

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Let's also not forget about our other problems, such as.... did you guys know that the mere 15 largest container ships spew out as much emissions as ALL the worlds car fleet... that's almost unbelievable.

What's your source on this? A couple weeks ago, you stated that it cruise ships.....
My take on it, if it is in fact true - you need to also realize the efficiency of that emission. Take the ship away, now how do we transport those goods? 10 747 flights? 100 smaller ships? Freight trains have the same power generation system - just on a smaller scale, but to replace those would be a 100 fold increase in semi trucks.

Does anyone know the FACT's about where hydrogen research is now? Have a link to a decent resource on it?

[TexasSP]

The number of head was when he my uncle and another guy were in it together. When he sold his part of the ranch they had it went to less than 100. They had hired help that lived on the land and worked the cattle full time of course. I just hated medication, branding, and tagging time. Luckily by the time I was a teenager he had gotten completely out. I still did other work for some people cutting/raking hay and what not. Sometimes I miss riding a tractor around.

On the conspiracy front, I don't not believe that they sometimes happen. I do however not believe when they are offered with outlandish stories and no facts to back them up.

I am with JThiessen on the tankers, so we get rid of them, what else do we use? I am all for alternatives, but we must have viable solutions that do not create new and greater issues than their predecessors. The US is really bad about jumping on the different is better routine without really knowing what they are getting into. I just always have a problem with it's better because it's different or better because it's better routine so prevelent.

Lot's of things are good ideas in theory, but one must remember theory without proper research and testing is still theory.

[redshift]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

What's your source on this? A couple weeks ago, you stated that it cruise ships.....

No, he in fact said container ships, from your thread on GW: "Another tid bit, did you know that the top 15 largest container ships in the world right now put out more emissions than ALL the world vehicles. That's insane"

And I provided the link, post #34.

But yeah, we didn't even consider cruise ships did we?

Sorry if this thread has taken an unwanted turn, but the title is "Electric Cars: the reality", not "Electric Cars: duckies, bunnies and worn out fairy tales".

As plainly as I can put it, if you want unorthodox answers, stop looking for orthodox explanations.

We can make this happen, but the vaunted "conventional wisdom" needs to take a flying leap.

[JThiessen]

Redshift - Sorry, I must have missed that link - in fact I went back and looked just now, and it only has 27 posts in it, and no linky from you.

So I just did a search for the data on that, and found the EPA report on it. http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2009/...-09-P-0125.pdf Nowhere does it say that only 15 ships account for that much pollution.

EPA estimated that in 2001, ocean-going ships emitted:
• more than 54,000 tons of fine particulate matter, which is equivalent to the
pollution from 117 coal-fired power plants,
• approximately 745,000 tons of smog-forming NOx pollution—comparable to the NOx emissions from over 800 million of today’s new cars, and
• about 450,000 tons of SO2, which is more than 40% of the total SO2 from the mobile source sector.1

And further in:

In 2007, Category 3 marine engines (large oceangoing vessel engines)14 emitted more than half of the mobile source SOx inventory for the entire United States (almost 530,000 tons).

NOTICE: thats ALL Cat 3 (large ocean going size) marine engines, not just 15, only emitted half the total for the US.
There are three main categories of emissions, NOx, SO2, and one other, but only the SOx was more than 50%.


Did anyone see the Monster Garage episode where they powered a drag car using about 400 Milwaulkee Battery Packs? I only got to see the last 20 minutes of it - but after the robot guy got the speed control tuned it turned the 1/4 mile right at 100mph - somewhere in the 14's if I remember correctly.

[lutach]

One thing that is bugging me is the fact the the first automobiles made were electric. What would have been if they would just keep them that way? My head is hurting from trying to figure out what kind of battery we would have today, specially how the electronic technologies are changing at a faster pace then what the IC technology is. If anyone here has the capabilities to put something together like an estimate number, please do so as my little brain is just about to explode .

[zeropointbug]

JThiessen - There are supposedly ~780 million cars in the world, and what you posted states more NOx pollution than 800 million cars. But then again there are more than 15 container ships in the world, so either one of them is off... or it could just be that the ships have increased in size THAT much over the last 9 years.


Lutach - I know! There were more electrics on the road than gasoline powered at the turn of the 20th century. The baker electric car had a range of 100+ miles and a top speed of 25mph. I too can't even imagine what kind of battery, or more likely exotic power source we would have if electric was the dominating way.

It was all about the Rothschild s, J.P. Morgan, and other powerful families/figures that drastically influenced the course of automotive development (and they were the money changers as well, still controlling from behind the curtain today), as they had all this oil, and nothing to use it in, until gasoline cars were made more convenient than before, as they would have to get out of the car and crank it, not to mention preheating the engine with a fire.

Everything is bull$#!T, seriously, it's all bull$#!T.... almost every sector, every industry, everything is based on a lie.