going to buy a rifle---advice?

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

So you gonna scare away the burgler by making spooky sounds ?
Chambering a round does a much better job.

well...not quite, some prick broke into our house and we all woke up and chased the bastard off with brooms and cricket bats and crap

"GET OUTA MY HOUSE!" was a spooky enough noise for him


still...i dont like guns. guns kill people and that's bad (even if they are bad people, life in prison is a worse punishment but costs more)

[E-Revonut]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

i dont like guns. guns kill people and that's bad (even if they are bad people, life in prison is a worse punishment but costs more)

Guns don't kill people.....People kill people, please keep the facts straight. People may use guns to kill people and careless people may kill themselves with guns but guns don't kill people, people kill people!

[_paralyzed_]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

still...i dont like guns. guns kill people and that's bad (even if they are bad people, life in prison is a worse punishment but costs more)

there was an eigth scale buggy race where a turn marshall took a buggy to the temple and died. I don't know what you should do now, r/c kills people

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by E-Revonut

Guns don't kill people.....People kill people, please keep the facts straight. People may use guns to kill people and careless people may kill themselves with guns but guns don't kill people, people kill people!

true true...humans are bloody stupid creatures at times my dad believes that we do many things backwards.

yes but accidents happen (like someone pulling the trigger)

but guns are DESIGNED from the ground up for killing.

it just seems silly to me...buying a gun because you are afraid of a criminal...with a gun. go figure.
it's always a matter of who has the bigger stick.

[Riko]

As a non-American, I find this whole thread kinda funny and it makes me curious at the same time :)

I am tired of asking myself the same question all over again "what is it with Americans and their guns" so I'll just assume it's a historical thing/tradition :)

Much like the Dutch do iceskating, the Belgians love cycling etc I guess.

ps: talking about Belgium, any of you guys own a FN-weapon of some sort? (one of our most infamous export products)

Personally I have army experience mainly with the M16 Assault Rifle, cant beat that for all around effectiveness againsts humans or animals. Is it legal or readily available in the states?

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

it just seems silly to me...buying a gun because you are afraid of a criminal...with a gun. go figure.
it's always a matter of who has the bigger stick.

No direspect intended !

You'll think much differently when some worthless peice of shit breaks into your house and the prick holds a knife or gun to your wife and daughter (or decides to do something of a sexual nature) and all you have a criket bat ?

[Riko]

it must be a historical thing than, gun use in the US

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by Riko

As a non-American, I find this whole thread kinda funny and it makes me curious at the same time :)

ps: talking about Belgium, any of you guys own a FN-weapon of some sort? (one of our most infamous export products)

I have a Savage 30-06 that was built in Belgium. It was one of thier lines that had a little fancier engraving and action in it.

Guns are like any other product. There are many different types of enthusiasts - collectors, sportsmen, defense, guys that learned everything they know on a playstation, and constitution owners (because its my right!).
To those that buy a 9mm pistol to defend their home - I say you haven't done much shooting and testing of your abilities to shoot under extenuating circumstances, and what a bullet does in with different materials. Paper targets at the gun range are NOT real life. If you really want to defend your home, and minimize potential risk to your family and neighbors, you'd have a shotgun under your bed, not something that is going to go through a couple walls and still have the ability to kill your daughter in the next room. Yes, a shotgun blast will go through two pieces of sheet rock, but it will only injure a person on the other side, not kill them. Plus I'd prefer to have the foot wide kill shot area rather than a 1/4 inch zone.....have you ever had the shakes when shooting? Makes it really hard to aim. How many of you will be calm if you actually had someone standing in your hallway? Anyone that says they will is a liar, and has probably never had their guns sights on something living.
The thought of protecting yourself with a gun is idealistic for 99% of people - it will NOT go down like it does in your head.

[shaunjohnson]

we'd prolly be safer with the old muskets you can imagine someone trying to draw that on you.

my mate has a small calibre air powered rifle, wonder if you could get larger ones that could be used for deer and such?
i'd imagine they would be cheaper to run?

hell..who am i to stur up a hornets nest here...my bad!!
it's your law to be allowed own one over there (as far as i know) so it's prolly what riko said, culture/history.

[redshift]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

How many of you will be calm if you actually had someone standing in your hallway? Anyone that says they will is a liar, and has probably never had their guns sights on something living.
The thought of protecting yourself with a gun is idealistic for 99% of people - it will NOT go down like it does in your head.

Now THAT is a very mature POV. Really needed to be said, thanks JT.

I am a big believer in constitutional rights. However these people that talk about taking on a gov't run amok, for example, are not living in the now.

To readers abroad, the right to bear arms was in fact built in EXPLICITLY for the people to protect themselves from a tyrannical gov't. The problem is, when the constitution was drafted, the people and the 'law' had a nice even playing field. There was no advantage on either side, it was musket vs. musket.

That is not at all the case anymore, the people have peashooters (and I don't care if we're talking 50 cal), the military/police have microwave weapons that will melt your skin off, sonic weapons that can make you physically sick, and a huge number of other toys that make any firearm look silly.

If it's home defense you're concerned with, anything bigger than a .38 is just going to make more noise. And anything that requires both hands, rifle or shotty, will be cumbersome and leave you one less hand for throwing heavy objects while you're unloading rounds... and for agility in extreme situations.

I have no love for guns, they are simply tools. This is from someone who knew how to reload .223 rounds at age 9. By the way I'm not bragging, it's hardly what I wanted to be doing while everyone else was outside playing...

I really like what you said there JT, more people would realize how unprepared they were just by doing a simple drill, or break-in simulation. Families have fire drills, no reason to not have a drill for an intruder. You may have the tools, but do you have the actual preparedness?

[rabosi]

Adding to what JT said, I would think that most people who have small children in their home keep their guns locked up making it more difficult to access in the middle of the night.
As for american's love of guns, I think it's because the country was founded in the gun era, where the gun was almost a necessity for survival. Even poor people owned guns. Most other cultures started before the gun era.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by E-Revonut

Thank you! For home defense I think nothing will ever match the power of racking a shell (or not) in a Remington 870 12ga pump! The ruger 10/22 is a great plinking/target rifle with a great aftermarket support. A .223 will easily take care of coyotes and mt lions as well as most any other animal with a properly placed shot. Personally though I would skip the assault rifle type and go for an actual hunting rifle with a good scope. I have a bolt action Savage in .223 that shoots incredible groups well past 100yards.

I love the 870 (I have an Express Super Mag) but the action is too smooth and refined. Chambering a round with the 870 is like politely saying "Excuse me sir, would you mind leaving my home?" whereas a Maverick 88/Mossberg 500 is more like a "GET THE $%^& OUT!" I agree with JT, a shotgun is the best for home defense because it's easier to hit and minimal collateral damage due to over-penetration. 2 3/4 00 buckshot is perfect for personal defense, imagine getting hit by nearly a dozen .38 special or 9mm rounds at once and that's basically what that shell is (my 3.5" 00 buck shells hold 18 ). If you are not prepared to use it and accept the consequences, don't use it for defense. There have been cases where the person was too afraid of taking a life and the burglar was able to take the weapon from the home owner and used it on them, if you aren't going to pull the trigger don't use it for defense.

A hunting rifle is a great way of taking something down, but that all depends on the range. Since he is a first time gun owner it would be better to learn to shoot on a bolt action (preferably singe shot) because you learn to make your shots count better, with a semi-automatic and a 30 round magazine if you miss you get in the mindset that you can just shoot again. I have a Remington 700 .243 with a 3-9x scope that is very efficient at taking down animals (good for hunting because it is powerful enough to drop the animal but doesn't blow a huge hole in them and waste anything). The action on the 700s is very good and it has been very reliable. I got it out of pawn shop for about $300 so much cheaper than an AR.

Gotta love gun threads, all the foreigners like to come in and act all self-righteous and pretend they know everything. It is a part of our history and culture and will continue to be as long as we value our freedom and safety, get over it!

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Gotta love gun threads, all the foreigners like to come in and act all self-righteous and pretend they know everything. It is a part of our history and culture and will continue to be as long as we value our freedom and safety, get over it!

woow, hold your horses cowboy :) I suppose you are refering to me with "all" foreigners?..(since I am the only non-American who posted in this thread)
But if you would read my post carefully, I was not judging, let alone be "self-righteous"
I actually was trying to understand it. I even thought it had to be something historical that is now part of the "American culture" if it is so deeply rooted.

So who am I to be self-righteous and tell a big nation like the USA what to do, right? :)

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

If you are not prepared to use it and accept the consequences, don't use it for defense. There have been cases where the person was too afraid of taking a life and the burglar was able to take the weapon from the home owner and used it on them, if you aren't going to pull the trigger don't use it for defense.

ow, maybe a wiser option: having no fire arm in the house in the first place = no risk at all of anybody getting shot...

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by Riko

woow, hold your horses cowboy :) I suppose you are refering to me with "all" foreigners?..
But if you would read my post carefully, I was not judging, let alone be "self-righteous"
I actually was trying to understand it. I even thought it had to be something historical that is now part of the "American culture" if it is so deeply rooted.

So who am I to be self-righteous and tell a big nation like the USA what to do, right? :)




ow, maybe a wiser option: having no fire arm in the house in the first place = no risk at all of anybody getting shot...

That wasn't directed at you, but I never understood why people have to troll threads like this. It is part of our culture, it is how we became a nation and it is how we will stay who we are.

If you think that's a wiser option, you should open your eyes....