Off to see Avatar premier tonight...

[shaunjohnson]

yeah the hidden message...well...not really hidden, was disturbing but is still a good movie when you put that out of your head.

[Modding_out]

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

yeah the hidden message...well...not really hidden, was disturbing but is still a good movie when you put that out of your head.

Ahh..... "disturbing" that was the word I was looking for.


Btw how the heck did we get talking about the Ethics of this movie?


Any one want to right a letter to Cameron and ask him wtf is up?

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Finnster

After all, without deeper meanings, King Kong is just a story about a giant monkey. ;)

That movie had a giant monkey? All I saw was a giant di...... Wait a minute, I thought you were talking about King Dong. I knew it did not have a monkey in it, I about wore out my vhs copy with the pause button.

As for King Kong I never really enjoyed it, the original or the recent remake. But alot of movies try to deal with the issue of human "greed". Problem is most movie makes are not philosophers (sp?) so alot of their point is lost on the more intelligent. And stupid people miss everything. So the "target" audience is basically the peers of the director.

I have been meaning to go to this movie, and almost went tonight but I got a quasi-migrane headache and had to sit in a dark room while I pondered the existance of dog (I am dyslexic). Nothing against these "fantasy world" type of movies but they are really not my bag. I love science fiction, but sometimes the plot takes a bachseat to the "impressive visual effects" and I hope that is not the case with this movies.

For the record most movies attempt to highlight human flaws. It is the base of "story" in general. Kind of like modern day fables, entertaining but also trying to impress upon us the importance to see the big picture.

Originally Posted by Modding_out

Ahh..... "disturbing" that was the word I was looking for.


Btw how the heck did we get talking about the Ethics of this movie?


Any one want to right a letter to Cameron and ask him wtf is up?

I can just see the lettter:

Deat Cammy, WTF were you thinking??

Love a bunch of fools on a tiny car forum!

Just watch out the movie in the 3D.looks amazing one.

[BrianG]

I finally went to see this movie last night, and was VERY impressed with it! It is probably my favorite movie ever.

[Finnster]

lol... glad you liked it Brian.

@ Linc sorta and whomever:

I don't want to be misunderstood in that every movie is/or tries to be existential, and that every little thing has some deep esoterical meaning. Michael Bay movies are about as deep as a Britney Spears autobiography, but with a few less train wrecks and explosions.

However, films are obviously an art form and some are more serious than others.
Its said that there are only 7 basic plots to all human story telling, and some explore the themes more than others. Also, there is a good level of craft going into the films, and sometimes it takes a bit of education to see the devices and intentions the directors are building on and what they are trying to do with them. I'll yammer on below.

Camerons are good IMO as they are a more substantial than just a std blow 'em up movie, but still have enough action to be fun, unlike some artsy fartsy borefest.

EG. Aliens (Ridley Scott did Alien, and his movies tend to have depth and meaning as well.)

On one level its a good action movie vs baddass aliens, with cyborgs, impalements, spaceships, and lots of guns and gore and stuff you can make into toys and sell to kids.
However, there is a lot of subtext in the movie. You see it, but its not always immediately obvious unless you know to look for it, and once you see it, you see alot of it.

On its deepest level, it a movie of hostile masculinity vs feminity, and all the rape fanatasy that goes with it.
The Aliens are giant peens. They have peen heads, with tiny fanged peens that shoot out of thier mouths to stab/impale and kill you. (ie violent rape) Not to mention they are dripping with goo that will also burn and kill you.


They have tiny babies that fly thru the air, wrap around your face and throat F you all so they can shoot their seed into your belly, so another tiny peen alien will be birthed by stabing thru your gut and again killing you.


Then there is Ripley, a human woman, who battles with the aliens. The director sets up a lot of female imagery around her char. There is a scene where she is soundly sleeping in the ship, locked in a small, bright, all white room, while its all quiet other than the soothing sound of the ship drumming like a heartbeat. Ie, its a womb. Nothing else happens in the scene, and no other point of it being in the film other than to build imagery. Lots of other scenes establishing the ship as maternal, as well as Ripley as a "mother" figure. You get the idea.

They have another scene where a male human cyborg char tries to strangle Ripley after his betrayal is revealed by jamming a porno mag down her throat. (he was thought to be human until then and was injured.) In another scene, a cyborg also secretly betrays the humans, and is eventually destroyed. His body is torn apart so that the inner fluids all spill out, which happens to be a sticky white fluid. Gee, what's the imagery? Human on the outside, a seeming ally, meanwhile a secret betrayer on the inside who happens to have jizz for blood. Righto. Message recieved.

Its been a while since I watched those movies, so some of the stuff is mixed between Alien and Aliens as best I remember. But you get the idea.
Point is, many things are done intentionally. From set design, chars, camera angles & cinematography to every scene. Stating the obvious yes, but its easy to forget while immersed in the film. Somethings are not very noticable or taken for granted until you ask why the director put them there.

Our focus might be in the foreground, but there are things in the background that are saying something. EG Blade Runner (another Ridley Scott film,) there are scenes where Harrison Ford is talking, the focus on him, but just behind him over his shoulder in the bg, there is a huge stuffed owl mounted on the wall with its talons out looking as if its coming down onto its prey. (sry, can't find a pic) Well the story is Ford is a detective hunting down and killing rogue cyborgs. Ie, he's a predator. He's solitary, works in the shadows to track his prey, and comes down on them with lethal efficiency. Not an accident the owl is mounted on the wall, not a coincidence the way the shot is framed. The foreground is off center to make space for the owl to be prominant in the bg. It's building the imagery of Ford's char within the film. (note that this does not mean every meaning and image is supposed to be highly esoteric, pondering the existence of man in the uni. Often it just has meaning with context of the film. Not everything/most things are supposed to be some Freudian headtrip.)

One other last one from Blade Runner, but you see it alot in films:

What is this? You kinda have to know the scene and movie to follow, but basically this is the villan of the film, the cyborg leader near the final death scene.
He's been wounded, and is bleeding from the head, maybe even the side, as well as his hands have been shot and otherwise impaled by Ford (see hole in hand in pic) and knows death is near. Regardless he is holding a dove and boldly faces martyrdom. What's the image here? An obvious Jesus figure.
Cyborg is a man created by another man (immaculate conception?), is rejected by man, and is persecuted. He is not supposed to be Jesus himself tho, but the imagery helps build the story/char. The cyborg finds his creator and kills him iirc. Ford is the one who finds and wounds him, and finally kills him. The cyborg collapses and falls, laying like a crucifix. Lots of other biblical imagery going on too, such as rain like a baptismal.

What all that imagery does then is to confound the story at the end and make it tragic. What starts off as a clear Detective as good guy/ Cyborg as evil murdering robot, by the end we are not so sure of which side is right, and it turns tragic. The cyborg's death is disturbing and not the satisfaction we were looking forward to in the beginning. Perspectives got challenged and turned around on the audience.
Its a good movie regardless if you are not aware of this subtext, and you still get the point really. However, all this artistic work serves to enhance and enrichen the movie, so it can be enjoyed on many levels. Part of the fun of a movie IMO is trying to see all this and understand what it means within the movie.

[BrianG]

Wow! You really like to dissect movies, don't you?

[lambchops]

Ive seen it twice now really enjoyed it, one of my top 5 ever! Will be interested to see how it transfers to the small screen if it still holds the same magic

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Wow! You really like to dissect movies, don't you?

lol.. what can you say. I am very analytical and I can't not see it now I know these things are intentionally there.

I'm really not that bad tho. Not like I'm hanging out at the coffee bars arguing with stoned out art majors on whether the Navi'i's blue skin is a metaphor for man's inner struggle for social acceptance, as influenced by Earnest Bullshinski's 15th century poem about a dead parrot. ;)
They are blue because shit looks cool and goes well with all the other flourescent colors.

[bruce750i]

Sure Finnster,
Sigourney Weaver was not bad in Alien, But now she's no reason to go see any movie.

Jesus Christ Finn, ya either enjoyed the movie or ya didn't, it doesn't have to turn into a scientific vs theological dissection

[BrianG]

lol. I watch/enjoy movies for the sake of escape from reality, not to analyze. At least that's what I try to do - sometimes the movies are so bad it's hard not to pick them apart. I was impressed at the "realistic" alien/world and how the CG blended so well with "reality". Usually, I look at the nuances of the CG to see how realistic it is, but with this movie, I got too caught up in the whole experience. There was just something viscerally appealing.

[Finnster]

:) A good friend of mine was a music minor in college (analytical chemist major lol.)
Needless to say he had a large classic music library, played in the ochestra, and we'd talk about things and he'd tell me about the musical structure and different elements in the composition.
He'd play them on the stereo, but I couldn't hear it. It still sounded nice tho and I liked listening to it.

The movie is so good and realistic, its giving people depression or "Avatar Blue's"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movi...ues/index.html

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Finnster

........... Ford is the one who finds and wounds him, and finally kills him. The cyborg collapses and falls, laying like a crucifix. Lots of other biblical imagery going on too, such as rain like a baptismal.......

Cyborg actually saves Ford's life in the end. I believe Cyborg died because of preprogrammed life span not because of injury. (not to nitpick) ....but interesting analysis.