What what WHAT????!!!

[reno911]

Patents are basically the only fight left in Monopolism. <- Not a real word. They can be the root of two evils. They provide safety for those who need it, but also provide the control for those who will take advantage of it. Google Monsanto.

[JERRY2KONE]

To answer your question about labor in Asia Korea has become one of the most efficient producer of many goods, and their economy is thriving because we are buying a good portion of their goods, just like we do from China and a few other places. The average labor worker has no idea who they are building for or where the products are going, nor could they care less as long as they get paid at the end of the day. Moral here is actually pretty healthy and they are glad to be working for what they get paid. Hyunde is one of the strongest auto companies in the world today, and that is because not only are they selling a large number of vehicles to the USA, but they buy their own products to support their home economy. Thats what we should be doing.

[Metallover]

Just wanted to throw this out there. This makes my angry, happy and sad.

$3.83 8' hdmi cable
$99.99 8' hdmi calble

There is a point where it gets rediculous..

[JERRY2KONE]

Originally Posted by Metallover

Just wanted to throw this out there. This makes my angry, happy and sad.

$3.83 8' hdmi cable
$99.99 8' hdmi calble

There is a point where it gets rediculous..

Actually what allot of people do not know is that the standard mark up in the USA is 300% over the normal retail value, which is exactly what you showed there. So I am not surprized at all. What does surprize me is thinking about that $3.83 price compared to what it actually cost them to manufacture the item, and the fact that they are willing to sell it at that price. That thinking is where we started in America back in the 1940's, and look where we are now on the greedy scale. Labor costs have driven prices out of this world for us, because everybody wants to make more and save more than everyone else. GREED is what drives us in the USA as compared to places like China who are driven by survival.

[scarletboa]

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

Actually what allot of people do not know is that the standard mark up in the USA is 300% over the normal retail value, which is exactly what you showed there. So I am not surprized at all. What does surprize me is thinking about that $3.83 price compared to what it actually cost them to manufacture the item, and the fact that they are willing to sell it at that price. That thinking is where we started in America back in the 1940's, and look where we are now on the greedy scale. Labor costs have driven prices out of this world for us, because everybody wants to make more and save more than everyone else. GREED is what drives us in the USA as compared to places like China who are driven by survival.

nailed it right on the head

that is exactly what this country has become and why China and these other asian countries are gaining so much wealth and power.

[JERRY2KONE]

I just call it like I see it. No one can say that earning over $100K for an annual salary is a means for survival. And again look at our professional athletes. Back when I was a kid ball players were earning a desent salary, and loving what they did, and were grateful for the life they had because of the sports. Now a days they are like a bunch of spoiled kids demanding $100 million a year, which is driving the price of a ticket through the roof, and no one can afford to even go to a game any longer. GREED is pushing our economy over the edge and at some point will destroy our way of life.

[PBO]

Greed undermines capitalism

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by PBO

Greed undermines capitalism

IDK, seems greed is essential to capitalism. I see it more as an agnostic force that needs to be harness and directed effectively, but of course that is easier said than done.

As far as China goes, I was reading an interesting article on tech jobs and the US a little while ago written by Andy Grove, one of Intel's co-founder's and longtime leader/Ceo/etc. Longer article, but a good read.


Basically what he was saying its not so much just a function of labor costs that has lead to China's success (altho undoubtedly an advantage) but a large range of American policy failures and misplaced devaluation of manufacturing and factory work.

A lot of praise (and captial) goes start-ups an technological development, but the major shift America has seen (and not cared so much about) is the movement of the next phase of work, the scale-up and production, has been moved out of the country. By his estimates, there are 10 jobs produced for every one start-up job. By ignoring the scale up work, we are ignoring 90% of the jobs. In turn, we are getting very low returns in jobs for the money that we invest in job creation and innovation.

China gladly takes them, and there is massive support by the gov't to bring those jobs there. Grove advocates a much more protectionist stance by the US, and re-alignment of priorities of tax, trade and business laws to favor job creation at home, and disincentivize businesses to ship the jobs overseas. There is also a critical clock that is ticking, where we are losing our knowledge base and experience doing these things, and venture capitalists are rising in China that will eventually threaten the innovators here in the US.

Overall, I think we have been a bit blind to the game China is playing. Currency manipulation, massive govt subsidies, as well as widespread social repression, censorship and propaganda to squelch dissent and strenghten the ruling govt.

I don't think we can win on the pure labor costs. Not only are we more developed and less overcrowded, we are a democratic and free people who would never tolerate the working conditions and oppression that goes on in China to support their strategy. That's not to say there is not a third way, and we may need to question our priorities, as well as beliefs in free and open trade when our "partners" are not playing by the same rules and leaving us as highminded chumps. Every recovery we've had after a recession in the last 20 years has been longer and slower than the last as there are fewer good jobs to return to.


Sry for the wall-o-text, ran way longer than I meant to...

[reno911]

They may live on a lesser quality of life than us Americans but I still feel that they live happier lives. Seeing as the consequences for being independent and free are more severe in these countries, people tend to have a better outlook on a job that doesn't bring joy to their life. In America, the general populist hates their job. Wants one that does this or that. With that mentality how is labor going to develop? Honestly Americans have got it good. Hate your job? Just quit. Even I have done that. Sure it was rough, but I didn't starve, I didn't loose anything. Too many infrastructures to milk off of to go completely dry. If someone in one of the Eastern countries did this, they would be dishonored by their family, and most likely lose more than an American would.

Simply put, to increase production and labor in the states we would need to learn to work these supposed lessor working conditions and jobs.

Which, with the nations standard of living being around that of the life of a middle class household, will most likely never happen. Thankfully we have illegals for those substandard lifestyles that do exist inside the states.

[Finnster]

Yeah man, I have no idea. There are a bunch of Chinese nationals where I work, and its funny to see the number of them starting to return to China after being here for a while. Its not a flood or anything, but China has come so far that many are starting to think about heading back and taking adv of their wealth.

OTOH, there is another co-worker I have who is here after he spent some time in a Chinese dungeon as a political prisoner. He doesn't give a F about anything. His basic attitude as nothing really matters as its still better than sitting in a Chinese prison.
:/

Originally Posted by Finnster

OTOH, there is another co-worker I have who is here after he spent some time in a Chinese dungeon as a political prisoner. He doesn't give a F about anything. His basic attitude as nothing really matters as its still better than sitting in a Chinese prison.
:/

The older I get, the more I truly believe that life is all about perspective

[PBO]

Originally Posted by Finnster

IDK, seems greed is essential to capitalism. I see it more as an agnostic force that needs to be harness and directed effectively, but of course that is easier said than done.

I should have been more specific with greed...rampant greed, unfettered greed...you get the idea, it does need control otherwise you end up with our current GFC problem

As far as China, India etc are concerned. They will have their time soon enough...empires crumble, superpowers crumble, we all die. Nothing is more certain

[TexasSP]

One must remember greed comes in two forms, greed for money, and greed for power. A lot of times if you have power you have little need for me. This can be seen easily enough in our governments who's greed for power has become completely uncontrolled. This is why we as a people have to control our government and not surrender more power to them. The whole point of our constitution and the three most important words "We The People".

[reno911]

Originally Posted by Finnster

Yeah man, I have no idea. There are a bunch of Chinese nationals where I work, and its funny to see the number of them starting to return to China after being here for a while. Its not a flood or anything, but China has come so far that many are starting to think about heading back and taking adv of their wealth.

OTOH, there is another co-worker I have who is here after he spent some time in a Chinese dungeon as a political prisoner. He doesn't give a F about anything. His basic attitude as nothing really matters as its still better than sitting in a Chinese prison.
:/

Once given freedoms and rights will you ever want to go back. Thing about most third world, well I shouldn't say that, countries under higher governing powers, is that the civilians living there know no other way of life. Look at China, they sensor so much of the web they can't really get a glimpse of anything. Some nations are so ignorant to human rights, that the States created, that there way of life is just that theirs. Only upon further knowledge of these rights and freedoms do they truly get a glimpse of how shitty their lives may have been.

Than they indulge on fast food and light beer until they have diabetes and die of a heart attack!