Damnit, the Lipo battery industry needs better standards!

Its a learning experience and a farking expensive one. I knew getting into this avenue of electric truck wasn't gonna be cheap, but holy hell, I had no idea the tech in the Lipo's was so damn picky and unstable in comparison to NimH. Case in point. I slightly puffed one of my Lipos from my second set of SMC Lipo's just yesterday. Yes, in 6 months, im on my SECOND set of $170 Lipo, after I ruined the first batch apparently from running the cells to low with the LVC at to low of a setting and they got destroyed according to Bryan at SMC




I got lucky and got 50% credit from SMC towards a new and updated cell set from Bryan at SMC and I was a happy camper that they came through for me and I proceeded to be more cautious with my Lipo's and raised that LVC on my MMM to 3.5v to be extra safe.

Fast forward three months later to yesterday, I got back from the bash pit and started to charge up my Lipo's like I usually have done so they are ready to go at moments notice when I wanna go bash, its much more convienent for me. I get done with the second pack two hours later and I noticed a slight bulge in the middle of the pack. Hard to tell, but it was easily tellable comparing it to the other pack. My first thought is.....

Ohhhhhh Sh----!

I immediately called up Bryan at SMC this morning and this what I can remember of my conversation with him:


Me: Hey Bryan, this is Bryce from Montana
Bryan: Hey Freezebyte! Good to hear from ya, how goes it?
Me: We'll, im calling cause I have a big concern on my second set of Lipo's from you guys
Bryan: Ok, whats up?
Me: Well, i've been babying these packs since I got them, balance them at every charge, raised the LVC to 3.4v.-3.5v and they've been doing very well up until yesterday when I charging the last one, I noticed it puffed slightly near the end of its charge. Its hard to tell, but its definently budged a bit.
Bryan: How bad is it? Is it breaking the seal on the outside case?
Me: No, not that bad, just the center is raised a little bit if you compared it to the other pack
Bryan: Did you just charge them today before you went out?
Me: No, I charged them the previous night and let them sit like i've always done, its more convienent for me.
Bryan: Ohhh, thats not good for our cells.
Me: What?
Bryan: Yeah, you don't wanna fully charge up your Lipo's until you're ready to go. The cell chemistry in Lipo's and especially ours doesn't like to sit fully charged for extended periods of time. I"m surprised you haven't majorly puffed up your Lipo's sooner as a result
Me: Ohhh crap....now what?
Bryan: Well, I would immediately discharge them either via driving or your charge and get them down to 7.4v or even lower. We typically will use our cells in races up until the LVC kicks in or get noticable slower and then will keep them discharged like that until the day we need them and then charge them full.
Me: Damnit, I heard something about that but I figured it wasn't a big deal,l its just so much easier for me to charge my Lipo's and have them ready to go when I want
Bryan: Yeah, I can understand why and I know some cell makers like Trinity, orion or Turnigy apparently are more forgiving in that area, but ours don't like to kept fully charged for idle periods of time
Me: Damnit to hell, so...am I screwed again?
Bryan: I wouldn't say that, it sounds like the puffing is very slightly and it may go away if you get them discharged immediately. I can't say for sure without seeing them myself. I know we have Lipo's that have been puffed for months and we charge and discharge them on a regular basis along with racing them and have had no issues. You very well could be fine, but again, dont' quote me on that
Me: Damn, well iv'e got winter coming up here and i'm not gonna be able to use my Flux for a few months, so what do I do?
Bryan: For our Lipo's, discharge them to around 7.2v area, don't worry about the rated capacity, we go by voltage. Then once a month or month and a half, fully charge and discharge them to cycle the chemicals in the cells to prevent them from prematurely wearing out. Lipo's do not have the discharge issues that NimH do, so if you leave 1000mAh 7.2v alone and check it a two months later, its gonna be pretty much within .1-.2 V from where you left it
Me: Arrrgh, this is fustrating. So other Lipo's don't have this charge storage issue.
Bryan: They ALL do, some cell makers have their cells be more forgiving for extended periods of full charge then ours do
Me: Damnit, another costly noob mistake
Bryan: I wouldnl't sweat it too much, just take your packs and discharge them to less then 7.4v is the ideal voltage and keep an eye on them. If the puffing gets worse during the discharge or charge, then i'm afraid their ruined. If the puffing stays the same or goes away, you should be fine, just keep a close eye on them. Sorry to hear about the troubles, we do state how to store our Lipo's on our instruction sheet that comes with all our batteries.
Me: Yeah, I kinda read through it but didn't pay it much attention
Bryan: So we have noticed, and were in the process of updating that documentation so people have a better idea of how to care for our Lipo's as for what works on our Lipo's, may not work on other brands.
Me: *Sigh.......* Well I guess thats what I needed to know then.....
Bryan: Again, you should be ok, just keep an eye on them and don't get depressed, well take care of you if they do get worse. We'll stand by our products always and help you and all our other customers best we can
Me: Well, thank you very much Bryan, I do very much appreciate your time and energy to speak with me and other customers
Bryan: No problem, thats what I'm here for. We are crazy busy at times, but we do all we can to help our customers and backup our products. If you ever have any questions or concerrns about anything, even not Lipo related, feel free to give me a call. That's what i'm hear for and happy to do it for our customers like you
Me: *Sighhh* It makes me think about going with the LiFe series of batteries that are more forgiving and easier to take care of, but damn they are expensive and not many choices available
Bryan: Yeah, I have heard some good things about them, but I have no personal experience with them yet.
Me: Ok, well thanks so much again Bryan for your time, im gonna go get these discharged and hope for the best
Bryan: Sounds good, don't worry, well take care of you whatever the outcome, feel free to call me and keep my posted.
Me: Awesome, thanks again Bryan
Bryan: No problem Bryce, take care!


Again, SMC has proven that they are willing to stand by their products and going WAY out of their way to help customers. I don't think I can name any company who's gone to such extremes to please customers before. That being said, I am getting very fustrated that the Lipo industry is NOT coming any closer to standardizing the C ratings of Lipo's, let alone the proper way to charge, discharge and maintain them. It seems like they have left the hobbyists to fend and learn from themselves in regards to this new battery tech and if it costs us *literally* to learn about their traits, the industry doesn't seem to give a rats ass.

At times, the NimH industry looks like its in good shape to continue being the firm base for electric RC usage. You can charge and discharge them all you want, they can sit for months on end without having to be messed with and you only gotta worry about temperatures during charging and usage. Sure, they are heavier and don't have the same punch the Lipo's do, but damnnit, you don't have to freaking "baby" NimH like you Lipo and thats what's fustrating me the most. A simple battery is causing most of the angst and confusion in this industry and hobby, along with ruined/damaged ECS's, batteries, wallets and feelings and there seems to be no one who is willing to stand up and say "Enough is enough!" We need all these Lipo makers to agree on a proper Lipo care and usage so we don't have this cluster of varied opinion/ideas/suggestions that changes with every single maker of Lipo!

LiFe batteries are starting to look like the REAL batteries of the future. They last longer, can be charged much higher/faster, they dont' need a LVC, they don't explode with over charge/discharge. This is truly what this industry needs, a very foolproof, stable and safe platform to build the next generation of RC hobbyists because lets face it, the diehards will always be a small nit and dedicated group that are willing to put up with the roadbumps of new tech. But its the first time learners, new and curious bystanders watching someone drive and fly and the first time drivers/flyer that will make or break this hobby in the 21st century. Having a battery technology that will advance the usage of RC in all area's that is capable of being powerful, stable, clean and most of all, SAFE and COMPLIANT for the general hobbyist will truly be the best way to help this hobby grow and for people to have safe and reliable fun with their RC equipment.

had this happen to all of my smc hard case packs these are the 6000mah ones right. I was pissed but what can you do. Only had like 10 cycles on them also

Anyone uses these LiFe series i've been hearing at hobbyking? Will they work well for Savage Flux's demands? I don't see how the hell Maxamps can charge nearly $150 for the same LiFe battery

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...v=l&sortlist=P

Originally Posted by boostedg60rado

had this happen to all of my smc hard case packs these are the 600mah ones right. I was pissed but what can you do. Only had like 10 cycles on them also

Are you serious???

[PedeBasher]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

I don't think I can name any company who's gone to such extremes to please customers before.

RPM. Nuff said.

That sucks that you are having so much trouble! I run a 3200mah 2s hardcase with probably 30 cycles on it and it is fine. Maybe try some other brands? I leave my lipos charged for a few days at a time semi often and never have problems.

Originally Posted by PedeBasher

RPM. Nuff said.

I dunno, i've heard lots of people get declined service because of all the red tape and "standards" to be met that RPM requires before they will replace a part free.

[hootie7159]

i leave all my zippy's, flightmaxes, and turnigy's fully charged...and then when im ready to use them i give them an additional trickle charge to top them off before i run....i've had zero problems with hobbycity lipos...the only time it puffed on me was when i accidentally forgot to set my lvc when i switched from 5s to 4s.. lol..

[lutach]

I'm waiting for a couple of people I contacted to answer back and if they think it's a good idea, we will finally get to the bottom of this C rating thing for good.

[sikeston34m]

I've heard alot of varied feedback on SMC Lipos. Their reputation is a mixing pot of indifference.

Their Chemistry isn't the best, that's for sure.

As far as allowing a Lipo to sit in a fully charged state overnight, that shouldn't hurt anything.

I've read where leaving them fully charged for long periods (weeks or months) will lower the capacity of them.

As the capacity drops, so does the maximum continuous discharge rate.

The number one cause of puffing is exceeding the maximum discharge rate. This is usually indicated by higher than desireable battery temps. If it gets up to 110 or 120, it's being pushed too hard. But then again, there are exceptions to this rule. Flightpower packs for example, don't seem to mind higher temps and usually run warmer than most.

I have used a NUMBER of different brands. The higher quality Lipos do NOT behave this way.

I have had a couple of Lipos sitting at storage voltage, that just puffed, sitting, for no reason. Cheap China Packs.

Good Chemistry is pretty forgiving.

My best advice is:

Get off SMC and try a different brand.

[Finnster]

What crap. I've left Zippies fully charged sitting for months w/o issue (not a good idea tho.)

Hell, I still have 10C TrueRC lipos that are several years old that still run well. They even are a bit puffed from drawing too much on them, but F it, a year later they are still fine.


So do they give a half-life then on the lipos? How many hours can it be charged w/o self-destruction?
12 hrs is too much, what about 8, 6, 4? Maybe its just something that happens overnight. If charged enough, it has the energy to turn back into a pumpkin?

[skellyo]

IMO, don't buy SMC again. They've failed you twice now. It doesn't matter how good the service is if the product can't perform the way it should.

[maxair45]

Originally Posted by hootie7159

i leave all my zippy's, flightmaxes, and turnigy's fully charged...and then when im ready to use them i give them an additional trickle charge to top them off before i run....i've had zero problems with hobbycity lipos...the only time it puffed on me was when i accidentally forgot to set my lvc when i switched from 5s to 4s.. lol..

I own two smc lipos for my xxxt and racers. Slightly puffed both. I own 10 zippys and slightly puffed one(a bit squishy, not fully puffed but still work). With Zippy and turnigy prices can you really go wrong? I say give the zippys a shot

[Unsullied_Spy]

I've left Maxamps, Turnigy, Zippy, ParkZone, and PolyQuest lipos fully charged for weeks and even months at a time without damaging them but I just took an E-Flite battery back to my LHS because it puffed (presumably from being left fully charged for too long). I agree that it is much more convenient to charge them when you're done bashing for the day and while you sleep and have fresh packs in the morning rather than sit around for 2 hours waiting for the stupid things to charge.

[redshift]

Damnit Freezebyte needs better lipos!

Sorry for the loss, I went with MA my first purchase. I learned with the wallet...

From most of what I've read about SMC, at least here, SMC is marginally better.

They may have the best CS in the world, but CS doesn't always equal a quality product.

My #1 choice would be Hyperions, #2 would be Zippys.

The cost of the new packs will be forgotten when you stop having lipo issues!

Its starting to look like im going to hobbyking for Lipos now. Wonder if theres any major differences between turnigy and zippys