Savage 5t Convert, what power package is best ?? - RC-Monster Forums

Bondonutz · 01:43 PM

Next month I'm going to start my Savage 5T build
( http://www.tcscrawlers.com/TCS-Flux-...t-p-17912.html )

I plan on the FLM hybrid bulks and towers w/XXl shocks and the rest will be Savage Xl parts and XL wheels and tires. I've seen how the stock Flux and Savage towers bend and flex w/LST shocks and really thought the FLM parts would be best for the diff assembly's anyway(w/HPI Super diff gears or 1/8scale diffs,haven't decided yet?) I wanted the aluminum where it counts and wish the rest to be plastic for light weight including the shocks.

Anyway, on to the questions. I was reading in the Baja 5b Ebay thread that some of you gentlemens ideas of a proper power plant for that heavy of a RC and it has me reconsidering my options.

Since the 5T kit weighs 4lbs plus the FLM aluminum and normal Savy parts I figured the 5T Savage will weigh 18-20lbs when complete and was hoping a M.M.M. and the 1717 on 6s was the ideal choice ?????

I also thought about the Castle Ice w/8s with a Neu ????

I want to incorperate mechanical brakes on regardless what combo I go with

What do you fellas think is best, I want ther motor and ESC to cost under $600.00-$650.00 if possible. I'm totally open to suggestions .

magman · 01.08.2010, 01:35 PM

The 1717 is only rated for 6s I believe. For a motor a 2200 series Neu will probably be your best bet. For a esc...maybe lutach is still making his 10s esc. which will give you more flexibility for up to 10s

Bondonutz · 01.08.2010, 01:41 PM

If I go 8s what kind of KV window should I be looking at ??

Thanks

magman · 01:58 PM

well...not 100% sure, but the 2215 1020kv may work on 8s. Or possibly the 1521 1577kv..although I am not sure if it is big enough for your intended application

Here is where I was looking at these motors...http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...FQk75Qod-3f7dQ

JThiessen · 01.08.2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magman

The 1717 is only rated for 6s I believe. For a motor a 2200 series Neu will probably be your best bet.

I'm thinking a 2200 is going to get overworked with that size of truck. 17 series, or the 20/21 series motors will probably be the right series.
But, the calculator will be your friend for figgering this out.

lincpimp · 01.08.2010, 03:04 PM

He means the 22 series neu, like a 2215.

I do agree that a cc 2200kv motor will not be enough. I am not sure if the 1717 on 6s will be either, unless you plan to retain the 2-3sp tranny. If that is the case the 1717 should do fine, as the addl gear ratios will assist it with getting the heavy beast moving.

I had planned to do a similar build. Make my own chassis, and use a std flux tranny and motor mount. The flux motor mount will also fit any smooth can 15 series neu, and i have a few of those.

I had planned to use a 1527 2y on 10s lipo. I talked to lutach and he said that the 100 amp esc he sold me should do the trick. It has a big heatsink and seems to be pretty durable. Bar that i think a hv 110 from CC wih a pistix. Or maybe the new ice series? I have no experience with them.

Since you plan to use mech brakes (I will use motor brakes) I suggest the best disk setup you can find for the savvy tranny, as the stock brakes suck, and a heavier vehicle will only make matters worse!

As for bulkheads, I asked around and most seem to like the Golden Horizons Bulks better than the fastlane ones. I had also planned to use lst shocks and the fastlane towers. I have both just sitting here, but have not purchased bulks yet. Not sure what to use as diffs, maybe the "bulletproof" ones that HPI sells? The 1527 2y is 625kv, so with 10s I get 23k rpm. Pretty slow, and I do have a 1521 2y as well which is 780kv, but I do not think it will have enough torque. Running thru the clac I get this:

Differential Ratio: 3.3076923076923075
Transmission Ratio: 2.215277777777778
Spur Tooth Count: 47
Pinion Tooth Count: 30
Total Voltage: 37
Motor KV: 625
Tire Diameter (inches): 6.5
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 1.57 : 1
Total Ratio: 11.47968 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 20.42 inches (518.68 mm)
Rollout: 1.78:1
Total Motor Speed: 23125 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 38.95 mph

Not sure if the motor or esc will like gearing like that... I could run a pair of 1521 1y motors and MMM escs.... Might be a bit overkill!!!!

Arct1k · 01.08.2010, 03:26 PM

I really don't see the issue and think people might be getting carried away - Are the rails that much heavier?

skellyo · 01.08.2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

Since the 5T kit weighs 4lbs

Not sure where you got that weight from... The longer TVP's are only 1.5lbs more than the stockers. Where do you see another 2 1/2lbs coming from in that kit? The TVP's are the only significant item in the kit to contribute to increased weight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arct1k

I really don't see the issue and think people might be getting carried away - Are the rails that much heavier?

I agree with you Chris. Even with an increased weight of a couple of pounds, the 2200kv is more than capable, especially if you're running 6S and gear for sub 40mph speeds.

Bondo: Also keep in mind that anything other than a 15xx Castle/Neu motor can is going to need a different mount because of the can diameter.

Arct1k · 01.08.2010, 04:01 PM

And you can take the weight of a body off...

lincpimp · 01.08.2010, 04:07 PM

Well the body is heavy, and you need to add a fiar amount of body reinforcement if you want it to last. I plan to bend up a cage, so that will add some weight. Plus wheels and tires, I will use std MT wheels and section up some moad xl tires to get the correct 5t look.

Also, whenever you lengthen the WB you get addl load on the motor, as the vehicle does not want to wheely as easily. I figure that my running weight will get close to 18lbs, so a 1527 should do.

Bondonutz · 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skellyo

Not sure where you got that weight from... The longer TVP's are only 1.5lbs more than the stockers. Where do you see another 2 1/2lbs coming from in that kit? The TVP's are the only significant item in the kit to contribute to increased weight.

I emailed them about weight and the said the kit weighs 2.15ozs, sorry for my typo and that might be Shipping weight ?

Bondo: Also keep in mind that anything other than a 15xx Castle/Neu motor can is going to need a different mount because of the can diameter.

The mount will not be a problem, If I have too I can make one myself. Also have a friend of a friend whom works at a metal shop w/a CNC machine

I greatly appreciate all you alls input but no 2 posters have had the same suggestion nor much for straight answers ?
Whats the best viable option weither I run 6s or even 8s

1527 motor but what KV ? ?

ESC, Castle Ice 200 ? ?

lincpimp · 01.08.2010, 07:23 PM

Well, higher voltage is better, so i would go with 8s.

As far as the esc goes, not much choice for a car esc like that. Startup on the hv castle escs is supposed to be good.

Will you run the flux tranny or the 2/3 speed? And how fast?

You want motor rpms to be around 35-40k with a neu for best efficiency and to allow for lower gearing to eas. So that should be pretty easy to figure, 1600kv for 6s, 1300kv for 8s. My 600kv motor on 10s is a bit slow, but I plan to go up to 12s, when a decent car esc that can handle 12s comes out.

Bondonutz · 01.08.2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Well, higher voltage is better, so i would go with 8s.

As far as the esc goes, not much choice for a car esc like that. Startup on the hv castle escs is supposed to be good.

Will you run the flux tranny or the 2/3 speed? And how fast?

You want motor rpms to be around 35-40k with a neu for best efficiency and to allow for lower gearing to eas. So that should be pretty easy to figure, 1600kv for 6s, 1300kv for 8s. My 600kv motor on 10s is a bit slow, but I plan to go up to 12s, when a decent car esc that can handle 12s comes out.

James,
As far as trans goes, I'd really like to have servo brakes so which ever trans will allow this even with mods and hold up at the same time. A slipper clutch will be a BIG Bonus and needed !
The flux trans has the stronger gears but can it be modded by using a different shaft to have disc brakes ? Not real sure of the Savy brake set-up. I guess I should go to HPI and spy some photos ?

Top speed is no a big concern. I think 40mph would be more than fine.

6s or 8s wouldn't matter to me either way, the higher voltage is better so I'll run 8s and shoot for a 1300kv window I reckon.
So a 1527 1.5D 1250kv should be plenty of Umph ?

Maybe a dumb question but Will these Big Castle ESC's allow Reverse ??
Hate to do all this planning and building and not have reverse ?

I have no plans of running a body so some weight will be saved there, at $100.00+ a pop I'm not going that route until I test and run and see that I can add some weight then maybe consider a body.

Mr Pimp
You posted saying the 1717 and 6s may not be enough, please elaborate because this set up would simplify ease and cost exponentually.

lincpimp · 01.08.2010, 11:06 PM

OK, 1st of you cannot have mech brakes and motor reverse. You need to have the hpi reverse module installed, and use a 3rd channel to engage it. So if you plan to have mech brakes and want reverse that is what you will need.

Since you do not plan to run a body you will save a fair amount of weight. I plan to run a 5t body and will make a roll cage so I have alot more weight to think about.

I would say that if you run the std savage 2 speed tranny with the upgraded heavy duty disk brake setup, you will be ok running the 1717 and MMM on 6s, as long as you gear for around 40mph. I ran a std savage with a 14xl on 8s with a 60hv esc and it did fine geared for 40 with the 2speed. Your savvy will be heavier but will have twice the power potential with the 1717/MMM combo. You may be able to get away with the single speed flux tranny, and you can run disk brakes with that tranny with the disk brake parts from hpi and the correct rear tranny output coupler. I would be careful with gearing and check temps alot.

If you go with the single speed I would give motor brakes a try, might work just fine, and save the added complexity of mech brakes and mech reverse. You will need a good lipo to handle the increaded voltage going back in during hard braking.

Bondonutz · 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

OK, 1st of you cannot have mech brakes and motor reverse. You need to have the hpi reverse module installed, and use a 3rd channel to engage it. So if you plan to have mech brakes and want reverse that is what you will need.

Since you do not plan to run a body you will save a fair amount of weight. I plan to run a 5t body and will make a roll cage so I have alot more weight to think about.

I would say that if you run the std savage 2 speed tranny with the upgraded heavy duty disk brake setup, you will be ok running the 1717 and MMM on 6s, as long as you gear for around 40mph. I ran a std savage with a 14xl on 8s with a 60hv esc and it did fine geared for 40 with the 2speed. Your savvy will be heavier but will have twice the power potential with the 1717/MMM combo. You may be able to get away with the single speed flux tranny, and you can run disk brakes with that tranny with the disk brake parts from hpi and the correct rear tranny output coupler. I would be careful with gearing and check temps alot.

If you go with the single speed I would give motor brakes a try, might work just fine, and save the added complexity of mech brakes and mech reverse. You will need a good lipo to handle the increaded voltage going back in during hard braking.

HA! DOH ! I know this,wasn't thinking, STUPID ME !

Believe it or not making servo bakes work I can figure out ? It's just that the M.M.M. ESC with 6s and ESC brakeing kinda scares me cause that seems to be issue for a LOT of failures. But def the simplist way out. I will have to reconsider servo brakes and try 6s w/ESC brakes I guess.

I think I'll elect to start with a M.M.M. and a 1717 w/6s with ESC brakes and experiment from there. Sometimes simple is better. Once I have it all together and see what the weight will be finished will also determin if I need to juice up to a different combo or higher voltage. I can always use this combo in something else if i find it less than ideal in the 5T Savy.

I thank you for your time and input James, Your word here is highly valued and greatly appreciated.

Planned on useing HC 6s 40C for the build. How you likeing yours ????