1410 1415 comparison datalogs

I have both the 3800 combo, and the 2400 combo. I have been keeping track of the results for similar speeds in my Stampede 4x4 running Trencher tires. . Thought some here might like to see the info. I started with some rotor pics. Please forgive the Tacon motor, but have it for testing purposes








Rotors of all 3. Note I have already had the 2200 Castle rotor, and the Tacon, side by side, and they are the same size.



Tacon and Castle, with a TRX connector for reference. The Castle rotor is probably about 1.5mm narrower.






3800 installed

[/QUOTE]

I relocated the esc to the front for better air flow. With the Sidewinder down in the chassis, I was getting much higher temps.

2400
Ran 43.3 mph gpsed with the 13/54 gearing, on 3s. 15 minutes, temps were motor 111, esc 90, ambient 54



I can not gear the 3800 for this speed on 3s with my setup. I sure wish there was a 1412 3000kv motor

Will have to continue.

Please note, my data logger is a 100amp version. While it's should be good for around 120 amps, the actual max amps might be a little higher then mine can record. I am doing all my runs in the same place, 90% grass and try to drive similar.

2400, 15/54 gpsed at 49.2 mph.
Motor 127
esc 95
ambient 54


3800 10/54 radared at 49mph
Temps for the 3800
Motor 126
esc 147
ambient 72
[/



2400
15/54 on 2s. Hit 30.4 mph.
Motor 112
esc 90
ambient 54



with the 3800 10/54 on 2s
MPH 33
ESC 110
Motor 120



2400
next run 19/54 2s, hit 41 mph radared.

115 motor
110 esc, please note this temp was taken from where the power wires enter the esc, before I was pulling temps from the side of the case, trying to hit the heatsink. Taken that way, it was 95.
Ambient 58

Full run,



Beginning of the run expanded,



3800,
13/54 2s, radared at 41mph, motor and esc 125, ambient 64
117.35 amps



Here's an expanded view of the first 4 minutes. The first bursts were the speed runs testing the top speed.


The 2400 kinda surprises me. It has more torque down low, which gives alot more control , but the 3800 seems to have a stronger mid-range.

2400
19/54 on 3s. Had to see. Just did a few speed runs, with no body, and my GPS on the front to help keep it down. Hit 59.3mph. I really only managed to hold WOT once, and you can see it on the graphs.
At like 270



I don't have a good graph from the 3800 at this speed, as I could never hit WOT without flipping. But never tried it with the GPS on front. for those who haven't seen, here were the results http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pzwnOfRV5A


All testing was done with a Gens 5000mah 40c 3s, or a SPC 8000mah 2s ,
and this is sytem for system. I'll be running the 3800 and MMP next.

[lincpimp]

Interesting, seems like the 1410 motor and sidewinder prefer taller gearing on 2s lipo, than 3s lipo and lower gearing? Or are we seeing the bec heating up the sidewinder on 3s, as it tries to get the 3s lipo voltage down to 5-6v?

I plan to swap a MM in on the 2wd pede I run the 3800 motor in. The sidewinder just seems to get too hot. I could try an external bec and see what that does for temps.

Different voltage should not bother the mmpro as it has a switch bec. And the temps look pretty stable regardless of the voltage.

So I have to think the sidewinder is heating up due to the bec, and not really having issues with the motor load.

I think I will do some testing on my setup. I do not have an eagle tree, but I do have a temp gun. I will run 2s and 3s, and gear both for the same overall speed.

Should I post my results here? Or would you prefer I post them in my build thread?

Anyways, good info, nice to see the graphs and will be interested to see how the 1410 compares with the 1415.

Or are we seeing the bec heating up the sidewinder on 3s, as it tries to get the 3s lipo voltage down to 5-6v?

That is what I really think. I have a bec that I will run with it on 3s, once I get what's going where sorted. The amps were sure similar, and it does handle 2s fine.

And the temps look pretty stable regardless of the voltage

.
The MMP is impressing. The fan has yet to turn on, except at startup. I like it alot more then the Sidewinder, much more precise. I'll be running 4s geared for around 45 soon.

Should I post my results here?

You are more then welcome to.

BTW I ran the 2400 14/54 for a nice bash session, should have been around 46mph. Running at the park , wide open grass, temps were 120 motor, 105 esc, 70 ambient. It's a nice setup, probably my favorite for bashing of everything I've ran.

[lincpimp]

The pede 4x4 is a great basher. Aside from the driveshafts it seems to be well made. I am tempted to try the 1410 motor in mine with 3s lipo. The 4s setup I have may just be too powerful for the platform. Batter suited to an 1/8 buggy, really.

I have dug up the needed pinions and lipos to test the sidewinder sc in my 2wd pede. Should have some info by the end of the day.

Did a run on 4s, geared 11/54 ran 52mph, and probably had a little more.
Motor 130
ESC 110
ambient 80


I was surprised that my average amps went down considerably, for the speed, yet the max amps was higher.

It was utterly overpowered. There is no point IMO, all it's going to do is break parts. IOW I loved it, but I'm not going to run it.

The 2400 is coming out, and the 3800 is going in, time to see what the MMP 3800 is all about.

[sikeston34m]

Great Information Asheck!

If Castle ever comes out with the 5mm rotor upgrade, the 2400kv version is the one I will get.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on 4S, does the 2400 remind you of the 36-60mm Medusa?

I would be tempted to use it for a mild basher E maxx or E revo on 4S. Would it do it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on 4S, does the 2400 remind you of the 36-60mm Medusa?

I think it reminds me of the 2000, on 5s. I think I can feel the faster revs coming from the 2400, but could be the lighter vehicle.

I would be tempted to use it for a mild basher E maxx or E revo on 4S. Would it do it?

Here's a short log from my E-revo on 4s, running around 42mph



The average is higher for the E-revo, but I would still think the 2400 could handle a speed like this.


I put the 3800 back in, geared 11/54 on 2s, ran 37mph
motor 120
esc105
ambient 76
The 3800 is obviously a better choice for 2s, IMO. It drove alot better, and you can feel the motor working with the revs, instead of all torque.

[lincpimp]

Ok, 2 runs so far.

Vehicle is a pede vxl 2wd, with the stock 4.6" tall talons. Castle creations sidewinder sc system, no fan on motor or esc. 50% puunch control, 50% reverse, all other options stock.

3s lipo, 5000mah 25c. 14/58 gearing. 10min run:
lipo - 100f
motor - 120f
esc - 125f

2s lipo, 6400mah 30c 20/56 gearing. Not quite 10 mins before it thermaled, repeatedly
lipo - 100f
motor - 120f
esc - 148f

Thoughts: well it appears that even running 3s lipo thru the stock bec is better than trying to pull the same watts out of a 2s setup. I plan to make another run with the internal bec bypassed and a ccbec to power the servo. See if that helps the esc temps on 3s. Keep in mind I have thermalled the esc running 3s on a longer run. Maybe a fan over the esc would help. I would prefer not to have a fan.

The motor does not seem to mind the load. Even with lower voltage and higher gearing it is about the same temps. Actual performance was not as good on 2s, I have a feeling the esc may have been the limiting factor and not letting the motor pull as much as it may have wanted???

The sidewinder sc is a fantastic value, and I think that it would work great on 3s in a vehicle like a slash 2wd or rustler. Maybe my pede is overgeared slighly, and I know my bashing style is tough on electronics. I think the sidewinder esc will be replaced with a trusy MM in this truck, and put in my M03 tamiya that strickly runs 2s and a much smaller motor. I will do more testing 1st as I want to see what it is capable of.

James, are you mad man , am I on the right forum, you are only geared for around 65 on 2s. This is reality, and those kind of #'s never work out. You know, I logged my 2wd, and was surprised. I'm running a VXL esc with a sensored Novak 8.5 motor. Geared 17/87 for around 34mph, on 2s. I figured it to be a mild setup but it still pulls 93 amps. Averaged like 12. With a heavy throttle and the gearing you are running, I wouldn't be surprised if you pull more then I do with my Revo.

I have a feeling the esc may have been the limiting factor and not letting the motor pull as much as it may have wanted???

I really think this to be the case. The 3800mmp is a different combo. The Sidewinder 3800 is a great budget system,it functions correctly, the 3800 MMP is just a great system it does what I want it to do.

BTW I did the math, and going from the 2400 4s , to the 3800 2s , I lost 13.6 oz's. That in it's self, to me seems quite significant in a 5lb vehicle.

Here's a little sample run of what 4s was like. It had a little more weight then I was used to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X7LXyP3J2w I never hit more then 3/4 throttle in the vid.

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by asheck

James, are you mad man , am I on the right forum, you are only geared for around 65 on 2s. This is reality, and those kind of #'s never work out. You know, I logged my 2wd, and was surprised. I'm running a VXL esc with a sensored Novak 8.5 motor. Geared 17/87 for around 34mph, on 2s. I figured it to be a mild setup but it still pulls 93 amps. Averaged like 12. With a heavy throttle and the gearing you are running, I wouldn't be surprised if you pull more then I do with my Revo.

Here is the 2s setup, not quite as fast as you figured?

Differential Ratio: 2.72
Transmission Ratio: 1
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 56
Pinion Tooth Count: 20
Total Voltage: 7.40
Motor KV: 3800
Tire Diameter (inches): 4.6
Tire Ballooning (inches): .2
Motor Current Draw: 0
Motor Coil Resistance: 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 2.8 : 1
Total Ratio: 7.616 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 15.71 inches (398.98 mm)
Rollout: 2.06:1
Total Motor Speed: 28120 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 54.92 mph

Now, geared back to what I had it on 3s:

Differential Ratio: 2.72
Transmission Ratio: 1
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 58
Pinion Tooth Count: 14
Total Voltage: 11.10
Motor KV: 3800
Tire Diameter (inches): 4.6
Tire Ballooning (inches): .2
Motor Current Draw: 0
Motor Coil Resistance: 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 4.14 : 1
Total Ratio: 11.26857 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 15.71 inches (398.98 mm)
Rollout: 1.39:1
Total Motor Speed: 42180 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 55.68 mph

I think I should gear it down, to around 45mph to cut down draw and parts breakage.

Differential Ratio: 2.72
Transmission Ratio: 1
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 58
Pinion Tooth Count: 12
Total Voltage: 11.10
Motor KV: 3800
Tire Diameter (inches): 4.6
Tire Ballooning (inches): .2
Motor Current Draw: 0
Motor Coil Resistance: 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 4.83 : 1
Total Ratio: 13.14667 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 15.71 inches (398.98 mm)
Rollout: 1.19:1
Total Motor Speed: 42180 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 47.73 mph

Originally Posted by asheck

I really think this to be the case. The 3800mmp is a different combo. The Sidewinder 3800 is a great budget system,it functions correctly, the 3800 MMP is just a great system it does what I want it to do.

BTW I did the math, and going from the 2400 4s , to the 3800 2s , I lost 13.6 oz's. That in it's self, to me seems quite significant in a 5lb vehicle.

Here's a little sample run of what 4s was like. It had a little more weight then I was used to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X7LXyP3J2w I never hit more then 3/4 throttle in the vid

I think the 3800 and MM on 3s will be the ticket for my pede. Geared as above for around 45mph.

I do think my sidewinder esc has taken a dump. It needs a kick as the esc will not startup at all. Once it gets rolling it will move fine. So I guess my testing was a bit of a waste, save for motor temps. The 1410 is a beat, I may take your lead and run it in the pede 4x4 on 3s lipo with a MMpro. The 36/301.5y aveox on 4s is a potent setup, and with the 4500 lipo the truck is getting very heavy.

IMO your tire ballooning is a little short. I've done quite a bit of speed testing with the Stampede Talon. My closest estimate, on the conservative side, is .5 at 60, also I use a little higher voltage, as it does tend to rise back up on a top speed run. So mine looked like this.
Differential Ratio: 1
Transmission Ratio: 2.727272727272727
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 56
Pinion Tooth Count: 20
Total Voltage: 7.6
Motor KV: 3800
Tire Diameter (inches): 4.6
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0.5
Motor Current Draw: 0
Motor Coil Resistance: 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 2.8 : 1
Total Ratio: 7.63636 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 17.59 inches (446.86 mm)
Rollout: 2.30:1
Total Motor Speed: 28880 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 63.01 mph (101.21 km/h)
Effective KV Value: 3800


That's why it's great to verify speeds, though. It could be right in the middle, I could be low, or you could be high, it's just hard to tell. I've been way off, up and down, before.

I am honestly having a blast with the 4wd on 2s. Around the confines of the neighborhood, it seems to mesh quite nicely. But I'm getting ready to head to the park, with a 3s, and the temp gun, so we'll see how that works out.

You know, as you seem to be a little heavier handed with the throttle, I'd like to see your results with the 3800 on 3s, in the 4wd.

[snellemin]

Great info. Now if Castle only made the 5mm rotor and maybe just maybe a sensored version.....

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by asheck

You know, as you seem to be a little heavier handed with the throttle, I'd like to see your results with the 3800 on 3s, in the 4wd.

Yep, I have a MMpro on the way, and plan to put the 3800 in the 4wd when I get the driveshafts sorted (finally got all of the parts in today) and run 3s.

I will gear it for 45mph, and see how it does. I doubt the esc will have any issue.

I will also put a MM in the 2wd pede and have someone radar it for me and we will see what speed I am actually getting. Looked like mid 40s to me.

Well I took mine to the park this afternoon. Me and my son gathered a crowd, so you can imagine we were running pretty hard. Don't know for sure how fast it was, but I radared at 50, less then wot. That's with the 11/54 3s, which with the Sidewinder I hit 54. So somewhere in there sounds right. Pretty much full pull to lvc. The Motor most of the time was around 130, but there was a couple times it rose to shy of 140. Ambient of 61. The esc fan kicked on at 1 point, but I couldn't find any temp over 115.

It's got more then enough for me, I don't know how else to put it. It'll put you straight to your lid at 50mph, and everyone watching thinks it's so cool, as I watch my body melt to road rash. :)

You're working on the front shafts now, right? I put my Slash 4x4 together last week, and have already blown 3 stockers. Did you get sucked into the MMP 2400 trap? For the extra $55 bucks did you get the 2400