Darn...no over-volting the Monster

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Believe me, I am looking at doing an 8S or 12S version (or both) of the MMM --

My question is:

Would people be willing to spend an extre $120.00 on a 12S MMM? That's really the minimum extra it would cost to do a 12S controller...

Also, a 12S system would more than likely be Opto, to keep the motor noise from the radio. So would require an external power source for the RX/Servos.

An 8S system would certainly be easier, but still a little more costly than the 6S system.

Patrick

So we are talking around 300 bucks for a 12s capable controller that will offer forward, brake and reverse, and be computer programable? I would buy it, as the only other options I can think of are the mgm escs, and they appear to have issues. I have a feeling that you would sell a few, I know that I would do a large scale conversion (1/5) if a decent hv car esc was around. I think that an 8s capable controller would be popular as well. The benefits of hv are quite aparent to me, less heat and more punch at almost any speed. I know cc like to cater to the extreme rc crowd, and this would be a nice flagship car esc. Plus cc service is second to none, which always helps!

Opto is not too bad, escpecially if you can make a hv version of the ccbec! Do have any any plans to bring out a hv bec? Say capable of 12s input?

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

The difference in cost is because of the difference in number and price of the MOSFETs. Double FETs with higher price for a 12S system. Remember, MOSFET resistance goes up by the square of the voltage.

There probably won't be any forward/reverse SHV software made available. It just doesn't have the hardware for braking/starting heavy loads.

Patrick

That sounds good. Count me in for 4 or more 12S Monster Max. All I'm asking for the SHV is forward/brake. I'm not going to be putting a high load on it, but what is the highest available AMP rating the small versions (Not the big 250A one ) have?

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

BTW, I'm in China now, checking progress on the Neu/Castle motor assembly line design. Pretty close to building motors. If I get a chance, I'll post some pics.

Patrick

I called you on Friday, then I remembered you told us you will be there until the 8th. I sent you an e-mail, but I'm not sure you received. Would you be able to do motors for customers specs and designs?

[jnev]

I would be in for a 12s ESC. I have always wanted to try HV as the highest I have gone is only 4s. But with the MMM, I will probably try it to 6s, and if the HV ESC came from CC, I'd try a 1/5 scale truck conversion too.

the thing is 6s and a good efficient motor is gonna push(Plenty fast) any 1/8 buggy, truggy, monster truck no matter how much aluminum you have on it, and thats what the mmm is ment for. not to power custom 1/5 scale 25lb monster trucks. I run 14 old beat up, vented gp33000's. that on a 9xl is almost too much power for all but strait speed runs. keeping it on all 4's off the line is a chore, unless i loosen the sliper a whole lot. So someone tell me why 6s with a neu isnt gonna be enough? :P

[lincpimp]

Well, for a start, higher voltage generally runs cooler, and allows for cheaper lipos, as the c rate and overall size can be smaller. Until you have run a hv setup it is difficult to understand the difference. Also, depending on the lipo, the lower amp draw due to increased voltage provides more performance at higher motor loads, as the batteries are not working as hard as a 4s setup would be. 6s is good, much better than 4s in my experience. Plus the cheaper feigao motors seem to run cooler at higher voltages, as their is less current going thru them. The higher voltage helps the ineffecientcy of the motor a bit.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Well, for a start, higher voltage generally runs cooler, and allows for cheaper lipos, as the c rate and overall size can be smaller. Until you have run a hv setup it is difficult to understand the difference. Also, depending on the lipo, the lower amp draw due to increased voltage provides more performance at higher motor loads, as the batteries are not working as hard as a 4s setup would be. 6s is good, much better than 4s in my experience. Plus the cheaper feigao motors seem to run cooler at higher voltages, as their is less current going thru them. The higher voltage helps the ineffecientcy of the motor a bit.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by dubkatz

So someone tell me why 6s with a neu isnt gonna be enough? :P

Simple:

Lets say you're looking for 2HP or 1500 watts. With 6S you will need at least 68A to get that. Now if you had 12S all you would need is 34A. With 6S a good motor for a buggy would be the 1512/2.5D and for 12S would be a 1512/2.5Y. Now if you want a good motor for a truggy with 6S would be a 1515/2D and for 12S a 1515/2Y. Now those would be a nice choice for racing. Guess which motors will be more powerful, run cooler and more efficient.

[SpEEdyBL]

That doesn't explain why 6s wont be enough. All your saying is that 12s is better than 6s, while you don't prove how much of an advantage there actually is (where is your actual data?) Not everyone is trying to break the land speed record with a monster truck. I would be more concerned about lipo failures than having a setup that runs 20 degrees cooler than what is already acceptable. The more cells there are in a pack, the more vunerable the cells are to undervoltage, since a weak cell has to go way below the safe limit before the mean voltage of the cells in the pack triggers the cutoff.

Originally Posted by SpEEdyBL

That doesn't explain why 6s wont be enough. All your saying is that 12s is better than 6s, while you don't prove how much of an advantage there actually is (where is your actual data?) Not everyone is trying to break the land speed record with a monster truck. I would be more concerned about lipo failures than having a setup that runs 20 degrees cooler than what is already acceptable. The more cells there are in a pack, the more vunerable the cells are to undervoltage, since a weak cell has to go way below the safe limit before the mean voltage of the cells in the pack triggers the cutoff.

With higher voltage you can run a lower KV motor and this setup will pull less amps meaning less heat than a lower voltage and higher KV motor, and since your motor is pulling less amps with the higher voltage setup you can run a lower capacity pack to get the same runtimes. Your motor will pull a certain amount of watts all the time, Volts X Amps = Watts, the average 1515 or XL size BL motor will pull 1500 watts, if you want to compare different setups you can divide the 1500 by the voltage amounts and this will get you in the ball park there are other variables Gearing, weight of vehicle, wheel size.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by SpEEdyBL

That doesn't explain why 6s wont be enough. All your saying is that 12s is better than 6s, while you don't prove how much of an advantage there actually is (where is your actual data?) Not everyone is trying to break the land speed record with a monster truck. I would be more concerned about lipo failures than having a setup that runs 20 degrees cooler than what is already acceptable. The more cells there are in a pack, the more vunerable the cells are to undervoltage, since a weak cell has to go way below the safe limit before the mean voltage of the cells in the pack triggers the cutoff.

I can't prove to anyone who hasn't done a efficient HV set up yet. I ran my 1521/1.5Y with 10S lipos geared the same as my 1521/1Y and everything ran just warm. Now with the 1521/1Y on 6S everything runs much warmer. You have things mixed up and it shows that you have never ran anything above 6S. You still think only because one wants 12S he'll be trying to set a record. How can I set a record on 10S with a 1521/1.5Y since the unloaded RPM is 38850. I ran my 1521/1Y with 10S and it was awesome, but that motor is at it's best with my 6S and it's unloaded RPM is 35009. Now with 10S on the 1521/1Y I saw spikes of 169A, but after 9 minutes of running the truck the average was only 10A and I only used 1685mAh out of 4600mAh. I haven't posted data yet of the 1521/1.5Y plain simply because of me running the 1521/1Y with my 6S packs that I'm trying to get as many cycles as I can to test how good they are. If you want I can give you some data of my 1521/1.5Y on 10S in a couple of days. Lipo failure are most common by users not following simple rules. Good lipos hardly fail under the right conditions. The only lipos that I had that failed under the right conditions was my MA packs. All the others were abused by me. Most people need to learn that HV is not for speed only. Ask the folks who does have a HV set up not for speed. They will tell how good things run. Some folks are even running a 55A controller on 10S and having great results. It's just simple common sense and experience with HV that proves to people how good it is.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by azjc

With higher voltage you can run a lower KV motor and this setup will pull less amps meaning less heat than a lower voltage and higher KV motor, and since your motor is pulling less amps with the higher voltage setup you can run a lower capacity pack to get the same runtimes. Your motor will pull a certain amount of watts all the time, Volts X Amps = Watts, the average 1515 or XL size BL motor will pull 1500 watts, if you want to compare different setups you can divide the 1500 by the voltage amounts and this will get you in the ball, park there are other variables Gearing, weight of vehicle, wheel size.

Right on. Plus the lower Kv motor will have more torque. This concept is true with brushed and brushless. The more turns you have the higher the torque. The less turn the higher the Kv. Most people usually runs HV for speed runs mainly because of the added bonus the HV provides for high speed runs. If one has a 100A 12S controller and he runs at the AMP limit, he'll be getting over 4000 watts of power. Now if he wants to race and changes the gearing for around 40mph, I'll bet he'll only see spikes of maybe 80A and only on hard acceleration, but he will average around 20A or so instead of 50A+ with less voltage.

[captain harlock]

Patrick, PLEASE, man.....I've been waiting all of my life for a HV car controller beside those schulze and BK rubbish. I've tried several escs from castle creations besides the mamba max and they are bulletproof.

I'm also in for one, whether 8s or 12s( the latter is surely better, though).

And BTW, Patrick. I've spent 450 dollars on a 149.18 controller from schulze, 420 dollars on a 89.24 controller from schulze,430 dollars on a 220/32 controller from MGM and couple of thousands on other escs. That doesn't mean I'm rich( I usually stay for 6 months untill I could afford one of them....I've been looking for the ultimate controller from that time without luck.
Now maybe I'll finally find my query in your pocket, man.

Bring it on, please!!!

[DrKnow65]

Here is my reasoning for wanting HV, how many amps do you realy want to make your expensive lipo's put out? Lets say you have a well performing RC that is pulling 1200 watts, not insane speed but enough to lift the front tires.
12S=44.4v / 1200w=27 amps (1250mah)
6S=22.2v / 1200w=54 amps (2500mah)
3S=11.1v / 1200w=108 amps (5000mah)

Will your lipo's, motor, and ESC be safer and last longer at 27,54, or 108 amps? Simple math.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by DrKnow65

Here is my reasoning for wanting HV, how many amps do you realy want to make your expensive lipo's put out? Lets say you have a well performing RC that is pulling 1200 watts, not insane speed but enough to lift the front tires.
12S=44.4v / 1200w=27 amps (1250mah)
6S=22.2v / 1200w=54 amps (2500mah)
3S=11.1v / 1200w=108 amps (5000mah)

Will your lipo's, motor, and ESC be safer and last longer at 27,54, or 108 amps? Simple math.

That is simple enough and others have said the same thing. I can't agree more with you DrKnow65 and finally more people are understanding why I keep bugging for a HV controller, but still we have those who can't get it. You know whats even better. You can use a 2500mAh 12S pack and get close to 1hr of solid cool run time with your math and that's just amazing. I even went the extra step and found the only company willing to do it and they are doing it from scratch. It won't be as good as the other HV controllers for cars, but it'll get the job done. With the Castle HV for cars, it will be just awesome to have a great company who has shown us just awesome products have one as well.