going to buy a rifle---advice?

[Bondonutz]

I've ben reading this thread and trying to stay out but I can no longer keep my mouth shut.

The US is one of the best places to live for many reasons, and yes we have some serious problems but letting home owners own self defense firearms is NOT one of them. Unfortuately these laws make guns accessable on the street for felons gets their hands on also, a chance we take I guess ?

I'd much rather live in a country that allows folks to owns firearms than live in a country that does not and have to defend my homestead and family with a stick or throwing a sheep at a burgler ? Thats Horseshit, I'm gonna blast the the theiving asshole that dares to step foot in MY HOUSE. And inspite of a privious post mentioning some don't have the testicular fortitude to hold a gun on someone or take life. I've done it(He didn't die but is a vegetable), and I'll do it again gladly, My conscious is crystal clear.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

That wasn't directed at you, but I never understood why people have to troll threads like this. It is part of our culture, it is how we became a nation and it is how we will stay who we are.

If you think that's a wiser option, you should open your eyes....

why?

okay, I understand that your country was formed under violent speration from the English rule. And that the US expaned to the west also with violence.
So I can understand that violence has been part of the american culture...
However, the US are not the only country that made itself independant by the means of violence, but they one of the most prominent gun-lovers in the world.

That's what I was trying to understand. The whole cultural-historical arugment is becoming less valid.

Anyhow, why do I have to open my eyes if I think that less guns is more safety?
Isn't that logic? Here in Europe the home defence with guns are a vast majority, so are we all blind and stupid here?...

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

I've ben reading this thread and trying to stay out but I can no longer keep my mouth shut.

The US is one of the best places to live for many reasons, and yes we have some serious problems but letting home owners own self defense firearms is NOT one of them. Unfortuately these laws make guns accessable on the street for felons gets their hands on also, a chance we take I guess ?

I'd much rather live in a country that allows folks to owns firearms than live in a country that does not and have to defend my homestead and family with a stick or throwing a sheep at a burgler ? Thats Horseshit, I'm gonna blast the the theiving asshole that dares to step foot in MY HOUSE. And inspite of a privious post mentioning some don't have the testicular fortitude to hold a gun on someone or take life. I've done it(He didn't die but is a vegetable), and I'll do it again gladly, My conscious is crystal clear.

So, you are in favor of private gun ownership, but more regulated and bound to strict (safety) rules (like in Europe) and against easy acces to get any gun for private use?

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by Riko

why?

okay, I understand that your country was formed under violent speration from the English rule. And that the US expaned to the west also with violence.
So I can understand that violence has been part of the american culture...
However, the US are not the only country that made itself independant by the means of violence, but they one of the most prominent gun-lovers in the world.

That's what I was trying to understand. The whole cultural-historical arugment is becoming less valid.

Anyhow, why do I have to open my eyes if I think that less guns is more safety?
Isn't that logic? Here in Europe the home defence with guns are a vast majority, so are we all blind and stupid here?...

We have grown quite attached to our rights and freedoms and don't take kindly to them being taken away.

Less guns does not equal less crime, the region of the U.S. where I live (Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota) has the loosest gun laws and highest gun ownership per capita in the U.S. yet it is the safest place to live? By your logic there should be murders every day and the whole countryside overrun with panic and chaos but that is not the case. Violent crimes occur all around the world (take Austalia as an example). Criminals don't care about the law, that's why they are criminals, so outlawing guns only takes them out of the hands of the 90+ million law abiding citizens and only assists the criminals. So much easier to be a criminal when your victims cannot defend themselves.

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Less guns does not equal less crime, the region of the U.S. where I live (Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota) has the loosest gun laws and highest gun ownership per capita in the U.S. yet it is the safest place to live?

The people are vastly different in the "majority" of the country Unsullied, which is why you see the difference in attitude towards this issue. I dont know how to explain in a short blurb, but think res mentality mixed with 1.5 million self absorbed a-holes.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

The people are vastly different in the "majority" of the country Unsullied, which is why you see the difference in attitude towards this issue. I dont know how to explain in a short blurb, but think res mentality mixed with 1.5 million self absorbed a-holes.

Indeed, I can open carry down main street here and nobody would care. Try that in Seattle and people would freak out. It isn't the gun that you have to worry about, it won't load itself and go crazy, its the person that I worry about.

[shaunjohnson]

i dunno bondonuts....sheep are pretty heavy!!
i'm pretty isolated down in tasmania and all our crims are soft we had like 1 murder in 10 years and everyone was like OMG!! and the case was looked into until last year when they found a rusty machete in my towns river.

Originally Posted by Riko

I suppose you are refering to me with "all" foreigners?..(since I am the only non-American who posted in this thread)

not quite...i'm Australian....and i started this argument with a 4 word post ....(sorry everyone!)
i kinda wanna move to America some day because of some of the unusual sports they have over there (big fan of hovercraft racing).
we got footy and cricket but that's it.

and you have to remember... us foreigners see is a patriotic country with very strong rights! that's prolly far from the truth for all i know.


LETS NOT TURN THIS INTO A FLAME WAR GUYS!!

we are better than that

[redshift]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

I'd much rather live in a country that allows folks to owns firearms than live in a country that does not and have to defend my homestead and family with a stick or throwing a sheep at a burgler ?

Me too. And throwing a sheep isn't as bad as some countries do

I have to clarify some, I said I have no love for guns, not that I don't have or use them. I just don't kiss them goodnight like a lot of non-Americans might think. And Bondo I don't think JT's post was directed at anyone here, and neither was mine.

Having to fire shots is an unenviable position to be in, and would surely change most people's outlook on the matter. Shooting for sport is great, hunting, as well as defense. I think what JT was saying (and don't mean to put words in your mouth) was that there is a generation or two now that grew up in the 'thug' culture. And these are the ones that have a Glock just so they could be badass or gangsta... whatever. I also know there's very young kids who ARE taught properly. The point here is the fact that you own a gun does not immediately demand my respect for you. Again, not directed at anyone. This is an argument where no matter what 'side' you choose, you will be attacked by someone.

Maybe I'm one of the few 'open minded' Americans who can actually see both sides, and also see how it would look to an Aussie or a Belgian. It's not the guns, it is the attitude that comes with it for some people. Defense is fine, it's when people go on the offense with it, and I think we can all agree the crims are the offenders. I often wondered what the hell I would use instead of a gun, might be fun to tase the shit out of someone. But really there isn't much else...

I still find it amazing that coppers in Britain don't carry, every bit as baffling as we must seem to them. I don't think any less of other cultures for being non-gun societies. But I think I'd only wanna visit, not stay.

Bondo I've shot pretty much every Ruger there is, lots of match rifles, SKS's,
and I was pretty good for a short while, then just pretty much lost interest in it. I actually know the #1 guy in the nation currently, he can do 1000+ yds with open sights, Fcking unreal.

I ain't got it no more..

[redshift]

"i kinda wanna move to America some day because of some of the unusual sports they have over there (big fan of hovercraft racing"

Alright, I need to clear this up once and for all. We do NOT all have hovercrafts in our garages, we do not take our hovercraft to Hover-Mart and do our shopping with hover carts.



Really tho, are you serious?

That's the oddest thing I may have ever heard... I did not realize Aussies think that's big over here!?

Unless NASCAR actually makes the leap into the 20th century and does something like that, I don't see it.......

[lincpimp]

Wow, alot here to digest, here we go.

Originally Posted by Riko

As a non-American, I find this whole thread kinda funny and it makes me curious at the same time :)

I am tired of asking myself the same question all over again "what is it with Americans and their guns" so I'll just assume it's a historical thing/tradition :)

Much like the Dutch do iceskating, the Belgians love cycling etc I guess.

ps: talking about Belgium, any of you guys own a FN-weapon of some sort? (one of our most infamous export products)

I like FN products, especially when they were partnered with John Browning (The Master) and produced alot of his designs. Currently I have a few fn guns and a few browning as well, plus I have alot of licensed built copies of fn/browning firearms. Not much better product to be had.

Originally Posted by JThiessen

I have a Savage 30-06 that was built in Belgium. It was one of thier lines that had a little fancier engraving and action in it.

Guns are like any other product. There are many different types of enthusiasts - collectors, sportsmen, defense, guys that learned everything they know on a playstation, and constitution owners (because its my right!).
To those that buy a 9mm pistol to defend their home - I say you haven't done much shooting and testing of your abilities to shoot under extenuating circumstances, and what a bullet does in with different materials. Paper targets at the gun range are NOT real life. If you really want to defend your home, and minimize potential risk to your family and neighbors, you'd have a shotgun under your bed, not something that is going to go through a couple walls and still have the ability to kill your daughter in the next room. Yes, a shotgun blast will go through two pieces of sheet rock, but it will only injure a person on the other side, not kill them. Plus I'd prefer to have the foot wide kill shot area rather than a 1/4 inch zone.....have you ever had the shakes when shooting? Makes it really hard to aim. How many of you will be calm if you actually had someone standing in your hallway? Anyone that says they will is a liar, and has probably never had their guns sights on something living.
The thought of protecting yourself with a gun is idealistic for 99% of people - it will NOT go down like it does in your head.

I am a collector and an informal target shooter. No hunting, and I mainly like to see all of the crazy and inventive mechanical actions available. Plus guns always go up in value, so they are a good solid investment.

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Gotta love gun threads, all the foreigners like to come in and act all self-righteous and pretend they know everything. It is a part of our history and culture and will continue to be as long as we value our freedom and safety, get over it!

I guess they just do not understand that there are alot of guns floating around this country, and it is easy for a criminal to arm themselves to commit a crime. A gun is a tool, but it is a powerful tool. I will say that is you look at the statistics, violent crime goes up massively when a country disarms its citizens... Just look at AU and the UK... The numbers are out there, and you would be surprised. I am not talking about just murders, but violent crime.

Someone once said an armed society is a polite society. Makes sense, you do not start carp with people if you think they are armed, especially if you are not. A gun is a great equalizer. A 90lb woman can defend herself against a 250lb rapist very well with a 38 snubbie, not as good with her hands (unless she happens to be some sort of black belt ninja chic). A gun is a tool, and it should be kept off people who will use it incorrectly. People who go to work and pay their taxes are not those people, yet they are the people who follow the laws, not the criminals. So gun laws are by and large a waste of time. I have guns cause I can ,and for defense, and cause I just like collecting them.

Originally Posted by Riko

woow, hold your horses cowboy :) I suppose you are refering to me with "all" foreigners?..(since I am the only non-American who posted in this thread)
But if you would read my post carefully, I was not judging, let alone be "self-righteous"
I actually was trying to understand it. I even thought it had to be something historical that is now part of the "American culture" if it is so deeply rooted.

So who am I to be self-righteous and tell a big nation like the USA what to do, right? :)

ow, maybe a wiser option: having no fire arm in the house in the first place = no risk at all of anybody getting shot...

Until someone comes into your house with a gun, then you are a bit lacking, and potentially dead...

If there were no guns we would be clubbing each other with sticks like we did in the good old days. Then the advantage would go to the person who was the strongest and quickest. You cannot change human nature. We get mad, we attack each other, we covert thy neighbors ass (hahahaha) and that is just how it is. Civilized society has no place for any item that can be used as a weapon. Pity that civilized society is only skin deep...

Maybe you do not have as much "scum" where you are than we do here in the US. I can definitely see a direct corolation (sp?) to IQ amount and lower violent crime. It may be hard for you to understand, but that is how it is over hear. I would not drive my car in some parts of New Orleans, and if I did my 9mm would be on my lap, my doors would be locked and I would think twice at stopping at red lights, especially at night.

When you find yourself in a gunfight with a cricket bat, you will come to the realization that you are at a huge disadvantage. The cricket bat extends your reach a few feet, most handguns are quite accurate to 50 feet with the worst shot behind the trigger. I can hit a coke can 100% of the time at 75 feet with my 40cal, and can usually follow it in the air shooting from the hip...

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by redshift

"i kinda wanna move to America some day because of some of the unusual sports they have over there (big fan of hovercraft racing"

Alright, I need to clear this up once and for all. We do NOT all have hovercrafts in our garages, we do not take our hovercraft to Hover-Mart and do our shopping with hover carts.



Really tho, are you serious?

That's the oddest thing I may have ever heard... I did not realize Aussies think that's big over here!?

Unless NASCAR actually makes the leap into the 20th century and does something like that, I don't see it.......

well it's a lot bigger over there than it is here...granted it's prolly only a select few who actually do it anyway...hence why i referred to it as unusual.
same case here...no not EVERYONE owns sheep and wrestles crocs. that was like 3 guys who happened to get famous. sheep are good for the lazy person who dosent wanna mow the lawns though like us
heck...we have NOTHING here in comparison!!
lol...nascar..."oh look...another left hand tuuurrrrnnnnn" jk

[Riko]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

I can definitely see a direct corolation (sp?) to IQ amount and lower violent crime.

if that's right, than Americans are stupid?... that is what you are saying ;)

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by Riko

if that's right, than Americans are stupid?... that is what you are saying ;)

Sorry to admit, but a large majority are pretty F-in Dumb or just lack a healthy dose of common sense. These are the folks whom add to our rep for the violence and crazy shiz you read in the news.

[Riko]

no need to apologize bro!
As far as I can tell from the postings, you guys on the board do not seem te be like any of the gun nuts that show up in a Michael Moore or Louis Theroux docu :)

+ at least you have a sensible president now! And that is something to be proud of!;)

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by Riko

+ at least you have a sensible president now! And that is something to be proud of!;)

I think the jury is definitely still out on this one....we may be applying to your gov't for financial aid in the next few years.

I'd agree with Linc's IQ statement. Getting a "piece" is a status symbol among some of our minority communities.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

I think the jury is definitely still out on this one....we may be applying to your gov't for financial aid in the next few years.

come again?...how come?

I must say to him, respect + a job very very well done in having the courage to actually implement health care for every single US citizen!
Health care is for the general public and so it is only normal that the general public finances that kind of system.

So I welcome you to the club of countries with a public health care system, at last ;)