going to buy a rifle---advice?

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

I think the jury is definitely still out on this one....we may be applying to your gov't for financial aid in the next few years.

I'd agree with Linc's IQ statement. Getting a "piece" is a status symbol among some of our minority communities.

I have a feeling the jury will never be "in"...

And yes, having a "gat" is a status symbol, especially to the various scum...

Originally Posted by Riko

come again?...how come?

I must say to him, respect + a job very very well done in having the courage to actually implement health care for every single US citizen!
Health care is for the general public and so it is only normal that the general public finances that kind of system.

So I welcome you to the club of countries with a public health care system, at last ;)

What you say is very true, however the US lacks the needed laws to keep this sort of thing fair to the people paying in (ie me). Too many people on welfare, illegal immigrants and also too many people who do not take care of themselves (smokers, fat bastards, drug addicts, etc). Not sure if i am interested paying for health care for people that I do not think are worth the air they breathe. I am a small business owner and the burden of paying for all of this crap falls on me and my peers. The health care system does need reform, but the proposed health care system does not benefit people like me, yet I am expected to cough up for it. Not really fair.

I can only imagine that you do not have the quantity of free loading scum in your country that we do... Maybe I should move there! But it sounds like I would have to finance the move by selling my gun collection... Catch 22 there!

[Riko]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

I have a feeling the jury will never be "in"...

And yes, having a "gat" is a status symbol, especially to the various scum...



What you say is very true, however the US lacks the needed laws to keep this sort of thing fair to the people paying in (ie me). Too many people on welfare, illegal immigrants and also too many people who do not take care of themselves (smokers, fat bastards, drug addicts, etc). Not sure if i am interested paying for health care for people that I do not think are worth the air they breathe. I am a small business owner and the burden of paying for all of this crap falls on me and my peers. The health care system does need reform, but the proposed health care system does not benefit people like me, yet I am expected to cough up for it. Not really fair.

I can only imagine that you do not have the quantity of free loading scum in your country that we do... Maybe I should move there! But it sounds like I would have to finance the move by selling my gun collection... Catch 22 there!

I must admit that what you say is also true, also here in Europe we are oposed to people who are abusing 'the system', of course.
Escpecially when I am talking about our unemployment benefit system. But talking about health care, everybody (in our eyes) has the right to be threated in a hospital and have medical help with the least expense.
In our system you do not even have to be national resident, every foreigner can just go or walk into a hospital and have the best medical care at no cost, if that person is in need of medical health care.
No papers no nothing.

We have our principles and for us Social Welfare is crucial in society, a society and system build on 1 think solidarity.
In fact social welfare is almost holy (and public health care is the most important elements of that social welfare).

We have put all cons and pro next to each other and in the end, the whole community is better of with a system that is build on "solidarity"
Its not like the government just decided one day to have such a system, no, the whole system (pension, unemplyoment, health, etc) came from private initiative begin 20th century late 19th century. And it has grown, and since the world wars our goverments have realized that they had to end all this injustice on these many areas, so they began to take initiatives and in time it all went government controlled organisations.
So another example of something that has grown historically and still works on till today.

Let me also say that there are very small majorities in european states that would like to build down the system (not completely, tha tis not accepted here), but let's say, these people are not so popular. Mostely ultra libiral parties (you could compare them with the Republican party)

I can imagine however that in a society like in the States where it is and always has been "each and everyone for his own", more individual minded (some would call it more selfish) it is hard to accept principles like solidarity.
But what I find worring in the States is that the so called Healt Care organisation and companies that should be involved with the health and wellbeing of the people, that they are only after money and profit and that Healthcare is subsidiary...It is no secret that the insurance companies in the States are/were based on profit, wich is criminal in the eyes of people who live in a social social welfare state...

Can you accept the fact that you have to pay a bunch of money for a small but needed operation, medicine etc etc etc.
In the English system for example you only pay 1 pond for any medicine you need, no matter what it is, if you have a proscription from the docter and you need a certain medicin or whatever you just pay 1 pound, no matter the product you need, no matter what your disease. That is because we think our health is so vital that no expense should be taken to secure our health...and that kind of thinking can only be subsidiated by a system were EVERYBODY makes a small contribution.
The idea of paying a lot of money for medicine, how small or big they may be, is just absurd in our eyes.


So you see, not all things controlled by the goverment have to be evil or communist, that is the misperception too many Americans have about a Welfare system, just look at Europe, are we communists? are we that poor? I didn't think so :)
And Obama knows this and wants to change things, wants to end that kind of injustice, but somehow, there are (pretty plenty) americans who think that any kind of social program or goverment regulation is a form of communism for god sake!
It is not only a change of system, but for many Americans a change of minds and opinions. That is his hardest task as president I think...changing a way of living that has been going on since the late 18th century.

Personally, I think health care is the best idea and system modern society has every invented!
And believe me if I tell you, Obama ain't no communist nor are his ideas ;)



ps: there are also political parties (the far right, some extremists some not so) that are making a program out of people (mostly foreigners, being muslims in the first place) who profit from our social welfare state (unemployment benefit, etc etc)
True for some of those people, but certainly not all of them.
So, also here we have issues :)

[lincpimp]

Keep in mind that the socialist views of the rest of the world is generally being paid for by America, as we have the largest amount of disposable income (maybe cause all of us selfish people are paying for our own health care) we have. We are the biggest "buyer" in the world... Just ask China (see how they are getting more capitalist), they know how to sell us stuff. Also take a look at how the UK was affected by the economic meltdown in the US... When we stop buying everyone else has to cough...

Nothing against socialism (well I do but that is just me) but when I go to a socialist country like the UK (where I am from) I can see the weight of the gov't pressing on the people and the general lack of money. Just my observation.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Keep in mind that the socialist views of the rest of the world is generally being paid for by America, as we have the largest amount of disposable income (maybe cause all of us selfish people are paying for our own health care) we have. We are the biggest "buyer" in the world... Just ask China (see how they are getting more capitalist), they know how to sell us stuff. Also take a look at how the UK was affected by the economic meltdown in the US... When we stop buying everyone else has to cough...

Nothing against socialism (well I do but that is just me) but when I go to a socialist country like the UK (where I am from) I can see the weight of the gov't pressing on the people and the general lack of money. Just my observation.

I am personally also somebody that is not in favour for the one or the other.
My ideological preference is social oriented yess, but a general socialist run country is not ideal imo, for reasons you hint at.

A bit of socialism mixed with some libiral views, combining the best of 2 ideoligies is the best thing, I think. However that can sound a bit contradictory :)
(In belgium we had for about 10 years such a government: libirals + lefties (+ green) )

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Keep in mind that the socialist views of the rest of the world is generally being paid for by America, as we have the largest amount of disposable income (maybe cause all of us selfish people are paying for our own health care) we have. We are the biggest "buyer" in the world... Just ask China (see how they are getting more capitalist), they know how to sell us stuff. Also take a look at how the UK was affected by the economic meltdown in the US... When we stop buying everyone else has to cough...

okay, simply said the biggest economic power and (so far) no social welfare to match all that power..that is disturbing.
So, if I were an American with "european" vision, I would be thrilled by Obama's plans...:)

Ow and the main problem is the lack of government controll in the banking system in the US that caused the economic crisis with worldwide consequences.
US banks gave to much and to high credits to too many people who couldn't pay back their credits, that was the cause that started the whole thing.

All banks had assets and loans in other banks: US - European - Asian banks all connected to one another in some way.
It got bad in the US and the rest of the world had to pay the consequenses.

It was Reagan who had deregulated the control over the banks, and it is Obama again who is planning to put the banking world bank under strict controll.
Even in Europe, wich is already strictly controlled by the govermententities, they are going towards stricter regulations.

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Nothing against socialism (well I do but that is just me) but when I go to a socialist country like the UK (where I am from) I can see the weight of the gov't pressing on the people and the general lack of money. Just my observation.

hmm, isn't that almost a stereotipical narrowminded vision of the American tourist going outside his borders and making a arrogant remark?
That sounds like you actual believe that the UK has only poor people DUE to the social system that sucks out all the money and that the US is a country from wich the citizens only have benefits DUE to the lack of a system like in the UK?

please, how many people are in deep shit because of lack of a descent wellfare system?...
it doesn't take a degree in politics to see that the system in america causes a lot of dramatic situations. How many Americans don't have a healt care insurance? 30 million, or more?
And of the ones that do have one, wich of those insurance companies does actually help you out the way it should be I wonder :)


Like I already said, you guys have a history of "absolute freedom in every level" and introducing a system wich is based on solidarity and basically means 'to give money for the greater cause' is not something that will be accepted overnight.

PS: comparing the economic might of the UK with that of the US is not very wise since the UK is many times smaller and has 5 times less inhabitants...
If you would compare the US with the European Union, wich is a Economical Union (a collection of well organized social wellfare states vs the US) that is more like it.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_GDP_(nominal)
So, is our system that bad? or are some of you really that arrogant to deny the facts?

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Riko

I am personally also somebody that is not in favour for the one or the other.
My ideological preference is social oriented yess, but a general socialist run country is not ideal imo, for reasons you hint at.

A bit of socialism mixed with some libiral views, combining the best of 2 ideoligies is the best thing, I think. However that can sound a bit contradictory :)
(In belgium we had for about 10 years such a government: libirals + lefties (+ green) )




okay, simply said the biggest economic power and (so far) no social welfare to match all that power..that is disturbing.

So, if I were an American with "european" vision, I would be thrilled by Obama's plans...:)




hmm, isn't that almost a stereotipical narrowminded vision of the American tourist going outside his borders and making a arrogant remark?
That sounds like you actual believe that the UK has only poor people DUE to the social system that sucks out all the money and that the US is a country from wich the citizens only have benefits DUE to the lack of a system like in the UK?

please, how many people are in deep shit because of lack of a descent wellfare system?...
it doesn't take a degree in politics to see that the system in america causes a lot of dramatic situations. How many Americans don't have a healt care insurance? 30 million, or more?
And of the ones that do have one, wich of those insurance companies does actually help you out the way it should be I wonder :)


Like I already said, you guys have a history of "absolute freedom in every level" and introducing a system wich is based on solidarity and basically means 'to give money for the greater cause' is not something that will be accepted overnight.

PS: comparing the economic might of the UK with that of the US is not very wise since the UK is many times smaller and has 5 times less inhabitants...
If you would compare the US with the European Union, wich is a Economical Union (a collection of well organized social wellfare states vs the US) that is more like it.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_GDP_(nominal)
So, is our system that bad? or are some of you really that arrogant to deny the facts?

Being British it would be hard to stereotype me as a narrow minded American.

Also, people move to the US for a reason. I cannot imagine it is because they are 100% happy with their socialistic home country...

My father moved from the UK to the US in the 80s, and he will tell you that it is better here. More opportunity to succeed, grow, and prosper.

You may also want to keep in mind that in the UK more than half of the population is employed by the gov't in some way. So the other half get to pay for it (17% VAT is a good start). Big gov't does not do anyone any good, save for the people in power, and who ever they favor.

Also you mention that the UK has 5 times less people, but it is also the size of florida. So there is alot more people per land unit than the US. Not sure what you are getting at with this...

Also, what is the problem with people just paying for what they want? Maybe 30million americans do not have health insurance, but how many of those want to pay for it? Maybe they chose not to pay for ins and just pay when they needed it? Should we nationalize whores too? That way I can go and wait in line for that all day? Pay as you go is a good idea for alot of things, and for people who go to the doctor every 5 years it is way cheaper to pay when you need it.

Base point is that i do not want to pay for other people. Period. People on welfare are not doing anything positive, and if they ceased to exist tomorrow all we would have would be more space and money. Same thing with everything the gov't gets their greedy mitts into. Nothing is done correctly by the gov't (which seems to have an average IQ of 75) and that is why the bulk of us narrow minded republicans do not want the gov't in health care. They will just f it up like everything else they do. And big gov't equals big taxes. Pretty simple to understand that, the more people that are working for the gov't, the more you have to pay, thus the taxes have to go up. Hard to refute that.

Here in the US, mainly thanks to a bunch of pussies, we are catering to the least common denominator. Schools pander to dumb kids, the dumbest people get the most help, and the intelligent people are crucified whenever we point this out. But we are still expected to pay for a bunch of people who do not deserve to be here. We are focused on minorities of all types, instead of doing things that will most benefit the majority of us. Everyone wants something free, and that is all this democratic health care is, another handout to people who refuse to get a real job and step in line with the rest of us.

I will say that it seems a bit arrogant of you to somehow understand how the american society needs this health care without having any experience about how american society works... I am glad socialism is working for your country, and hope that it continues to do that. I can say that it will not work here, for many reasons.

[TexasSP]

I have some very good friends from Belgium that have lived here for the past 10 years that would strongly disagree with you Riko.

In fact he commented that when his wife got breast cancer about 6 years ago how much better our system was and how much quicker and more efficiently she was taken care of than her mother back in Belgium who suffered Breast Cancer under socialized medicine.

More intrensic to me however would really be food, the most basic neceesity to live and undoubtly more so than healthcare. People have lived for many thousands of years without healthcare but no one will last more than a few weeks without sustinence. Maybe everyone should get free food from the government?

Next before healthcare would be shelter, easily the second most important need behind food. Maybe everyone should be entitled to a free house?

The list goes on........

On to the subject at hand, Linc I am with you in the Belgium made Brownings. My dad has 6 which are shared with my brother and I. 1-270, 2 30-06's, 1-243,a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. The are awesome guns!

[riverat1540]

for home defense i recommend a .22 semi automatic handgun. its light nimble and will get the point across. i keep one in my nightstand with bird shot in it. not enough to kill someone but sure will put the sting on especially to the face, after one shot however its real bullets so they better be on their way out by then.

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

On to the subject at hand, Linc I am with you in the Belgium made Brownings. My dad has 6 which are shared with my brother and I. 1-270, 2 30-06's, 1-243,a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. The are awesome guns!

DOH!....I read this and wondered "didn't I say my Browning was from Belgium?" A quick check, and I see I said Savage (must of been thinking about my Flux or something...). Thanks Tex and Linc for pointing out my................well, you can come up with the term.

[TexasSP]

Thanks, I needed that laugh!

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by riverat1540

for home defense i recommend a .22 semi automatic handgun. its light nimble and will get the point across. i keep one in my nightstand with bird shot in it. not enough to kill someone but sure will put the sting on especially to the face, after one shot however its real bullets so they better be on their way out by then.

A .22 might piss off a determined intruder...bird shot would mildly irritate them. I shot a clay pigeon with a 9mm bird shot round and it didn't even break the clay, and that's more powerful than a .22. .22s are great for learning to shoot, plinking, and small varmint but for home defense you need something more substantial. Shotguns truly are the best because they are easier to aim (due to the spread of shot), powerful, but don't over-penetrate like a handgun or rifle. They are readily available and depending on where you live you should be able to get one with a short barrel and pistol grip, which makes it small enough to be usable. 2 3/4" 00 buckshot is very effective, easy to get, and won't kick hard enough that you would need a full stock.

[shaunjohnson]

man, poor old Obama has a lot of mess to clean up!
poor guy, what a time to get precedent.

hmm...double barrel shotgun, first round is blank/birdshot, next one is real?

[Riko]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I have some very good friends from Belgium that have lived here for the past 10 years that would strongly disagree with you Riko.

In fact he commented that when his wife got breast cancer about 6 years ago how much better our system was and how much quicker and more efficiently she was taken care of than her mother back in Belgium who suffered Breast Cancer under socialized medicine.

wow, I am sorry to hear that....

But I must say you can't generalize that for the whole system + that situation is really not representive, very strange indeed.
There must be more than that going on...

Ow and LOL, thousands of years ago, there weren't that many people living on this planet, and thousands of years ago the diseases were different than today.
Compare now with thousands of years ago is...kinda a desperate argument if you ask me.

Anyhow, I am sorry to hear that from your Belgian friends about the breast cancer situation.

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

man, poor old Obama has a lot of mess to clean up!
poor guy, what a time to get precedent.

yep, he sure does!
He has the most ungreatful job at the moment + his timing is also very bad to become president.

Financial and economic crisis + the war on terror started by his cowboy predecessor + wanting to drastically change some fundamental things in the US (healtcare being the most obvious one) I hope some the majority of the Americans will reelect him again for another 4 years, but I fear not...

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

......... I shot a clay pigeon with a 9mm bird shot round and it didn't even break the clay,..........

Isn't that called a miss.

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Riko

.......... his timing is also very bad to become president.

Financial and economic crisis + the war on terror started by his cowboy predecessor + wanting to drastically change some fundamental things in the US (healtcare being the most obvious one) I hope some the majority of the Americans will reelect him again for another 4 years, but I fear not...

I would argue that the timing was perfect. If Bush hadn"t funked things up so badly I don't think Obama gets elected.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by rabosi

I would argue that the timing was perfect. If Bush hadn"t funked things up so badly I don't think Obama gets elected.

I wasn't talking about the moment of his election...(that came perfectly since bush...well you said it)

but I am talking about the years to come and the mess he is facing now