1s esc from castle

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Besides, many events have banned the new Castle 1S controller for the remainder of the racing season, 'cause we are too fast.

Which I think is totally BS. Punish the manufacturer for making something BETTER for the hobby. What a load.

Patrick,

Do you think it's time for a new and better sanctioning body if ROAR has anything to do with this? One that would allow technology to strive. So from what you're saying, Castle's MMP, Tekin's RS/RS Pro, Novak's Kinetic, Team Wave RBs, Orca and AE Black Diamond will all be banned due to the turbo or any other new features?

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by lutach

Patrick,

Do you think it's time for a new and better sanctioning body if ROAR has anything to do with this? One that would allow technology to strive. So from what you're saying, Castle's MMP, Tekin's RS/RS Pro, Novak's Kinetic, Team Wave RBs, Orca and AE Black Diamond will all be banned due to the turbo or any other new features?

No, this isn't ROAR, it's TOUR and BRL -- the carpet racing guys. The MMP 1S will be legal next racing season (after summer 2010--) But we worked hard to get the 1S on the market before Jan 1st so we would be legal, and then the outlawed us anyway.

And yes, we will be legal for Snowbirds... And it wasn't just us, Tekin's new software, and the Black Diamond were also banned.

So it goes.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

No, this isn't ROAR, it's TOUR and BRL -- the carpet racing guys. The MMP 1S will be legal next racing season (after summer 2010--) But we worked hard to get the 1S on the market before Jan 1st so we would be legal, and then the outlawed us anyway.

And yes, we will be legal for Snowbirds... And it wasn't just us, Tekin's new software, and the Black Diamond were also banned.

So it goes.

I hope this doesn't put an end to new technology. In one way, this is complete BS. If I spend the money on a ESC, I should be allowed to use it, specially if I pay to race. It would be awesome to see everyone not going, because everyone had a banned ESC, TOUR and BRL would die quick. One day our hobby will be just like full scale racing full of BS rules.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by lutach

I hope this doesn't put an end to new technology. In one way, this is complete BS. If I spend the money on a ESC, I should be allowed to use it, specially if I pay to race. It would be awesome to see everyone not going, because everyone had a banned ESC, TOUR and BRL would die quick. One day our hobby will be just like full scale racing full of BS rules.

Screw TOUR and BRL, I want to race under the LUTACH rules

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Besides, many events have banned the new Castle 1S controller for the remainder of the racing season, 'cause we are too fast.

Which I think is totally BS. Punish the manufacturer for making something BETTER for the hobby. What a load.

Originally Posted by lutach

Patrick,

Do you think it's time for a new and better sanctioning body if ROAR has anything to do with this? One that would allow technology to strive. So from what you're saying, Castle's MMP, Tekin's RS/RS Pro, Novak's Kinetic, Team Wave RBs, Orca and AE Black Diamond will all be banned due to the turbo or any other new features?

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

No, this isn't ROAR, it's TOUR and BRL -- the carpet racing guys. The MMP 1S will be legal next racing season (after summer 2010--) But we worked hard to get the 1S on the market before Jan 1st so we would be legal, and then the outlawed us anyway.

And yes, we will be legal for Snowbirds... And it wasn't just us, Tekin's new software, and the Black Diamond were also banned.

So it goes.

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Screw TOUR and BRL, I want to race under the LUTACH rules

With all due respect to Patrick (and that is a lot!), the comments above indicate you just don't get what this is about.

The reason for the carpet racers to go to 1S to begin with was to slow down the cars and have different speed classes with the available motors. So there is a 17.5/1S class for beginners, 13.5/1S class for intermediate skill drivers and a 10.5/1S class for experts.

The Advanced Timing speedos like the Mamba Max Pro threw that out the window by making the 17.5 as fast as the 13.5 was and the 13.5 as fast as the 10.5 was. So to keep the speeds the same for this season TOUR and BRL recommended against (or banned) the A.T. ESCs.

The plan is next season to drop down one more wind for each class and use 21.5/1S for beginner, and so on.

They would rather have people continue to race this season with classes they already fit into than have people quit because the cars are too fast.

For carpet racers it is not about how fast you can go, leaving other cars in the dust, it is about having close competitive racing (at least to the extent possible given the skill of the competitors).

[lutach]

Originally Posted by ta_man

With all due respect to Patrick (and that is a lot!), the comments above indicate you just don't get what this is about.

The reason for the carpet racers to go to 1S to begin with was to slow down the cars and have different speed classes with the available motors. So there is a 17.5/1S class for beginners, 13.5/1S class for intermediate skill drivers and a 10.5/1S class for experts.

The Advanced Timing speedos like the Mamba Max Pro threw that out the window by making the 17.5 as fast as the 13.5 was and the 13.5 as fast as the 10.5 was. So to keep the speeds the same for this season TOUR and BRL recommended against (or banned) the A.T. ESCs.

The plan is next season to drop down one more wind for each class and use 21.5/1S for beginner, and so on.

They would rather have people continue to race this season with classes they already fit into than have people quit because the cars are too fast.

For carpet racers it is not about how fast you can go, leaving other cars in the dust, it is about having close competitive racing (at least to the extent possible given the skill of the competitors).

I have to agree with this one, but how is this fair for the manufacturer? If Castle has a better product then the over priced ones, then it would be awesome for Castle to enjoy some profit, not on a over priced unit, but one made here in the US. Not only that, a lot of LHS would also enjoy selling some more ESCs in these hard times. I know they're struggling, so a ESC like the MMP which is not expensing, would be nice for them. When I raced a Xtreme RC Addicts, I used my 21.5T motor with 4 cell NiMH and everyone else was running a 17.5T or 13.5T with 1S lipos. My car was not set up properly, but I could still keep up with them. So would my ESC be banned as well and it doesn't even have A.T. in it?

Edit: So how many ESC are there without A.T. at them moment? Novak and Losi?

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by lutach

I have to agree with this one, but how is this fair for the manufacturer? If Castle has a better product then the over priced ones, then it would be awesome for Castle to enjoy some profit, not on a over priced unit, but one made here in the US. Not only that, a lot of LHS would also enjoy selling some more ESCs in these hard times. I know they're struggling, so a ESC like the MMP which is not expensing, would be nice for them. When I raced a Xtreme RC Addicts, I used my 21.5T motor with 4 cell NiMH and everyone else was running a 17.5T or 13.5T with 1S lipos. My car was not set up properly, but I could still keep up with them. So would my ESC be banned as well and it doesn't even have A.T. in it?

Edit: So how many ESC are there without A.T. at them moment? Novak and Losi?

If castle was producing more ESC than they could sell, I might feel sorry for them about two teensy, weensy, minisucle parts of the RC scene banning their ESCs. But they are not. I've got one on backorder for a few weeks now. They obviously sold enough of the December 1S pre-order lot (at the retail price) to be doing another pre-order lot for January.

That your 21.5 would keep up with the 17.5/13.5 shows the folly of RPM limiting. Were you running 1/12th scale oval? If not, the comparison does not apply.

The Tekin technically has A.T. but it isn't done in a manner that makes as much of a difference as C.H.E.A.T. mode.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

Screw TOUR and BRL, I want to race under the LUTACH rules

What rules . I mean, rules are fine, but to a certain extent. Not allowing one to use a ESC because it has kick ass technology, that's total BS. Like I mentioned before, a ROAR director has said 4 and 6 pole sensored motors are legal and yes I'm trying to get a few made. If Castle or any other company comes out with one before it'll be great and then we will see how this so called sanctions or clubs will treat them.

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Well then, if that's what the're after, they need an rpm limiter module. That way, no matter what ESC or motor or voltage is used, all the cars will be the same speed.

RPM limiter is unrealistic. It won't solve the problem (even if all the manufacturers agreed to put one on) because it is not just about RPM but power output. You ought to know that, Brian. You would need different RPM limits for the different motors. Way too complicated for no real benefit. The RPM limiter they use now is the wind of the motor and it works better than anything else.

Originally Posted by lutach

What rules . I mean, rules are fine, but to a certain extent. Not allowing one to use a ESC because it has kick ass technology, that's total BS. Like I mentioned before, a ROAR director has said 4 and 6 pole sensored motors are legal and yes I'm trying to get a few made. If Castle or any other company comes out with one before it'll be great and then we will see how this so called sanctions or clubs will treat them.

As stated above, it is not being disallowed because of the technology but to keep the speed of the classes in the range that they were designed for without making people switch motors mid season.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by ta_man

As stated above, it is not being disallowed because of the technology but to keep the speed of the classes in the range that they were designed for with making people switch motors mid season.

Ok, now I got it.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by ta_man

RPM limiter is unrealistic. It won't solve the problem (even if all the manufacturers agreed to put one on) because it is not just about RPM but power output. You ought to know that, Brian. You would need different RPM limits for the different motors. Way too complicated for no real benefit. The RPM limiter they use now is the wind of the motor and it works better than anything else.

It was more of a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek response. I think this whole thing is ridiculous. For a given voltage, a motor can only spin so fast. Period. The thing here is efficiency. So, because other companies don't/can't make a controller that is as efficient, CC has to suffer? It's not like they're using a switching step-up power supply or anything. And it's not about who has the most money wins since the MMpro1s is cheaper than just about everything else out there.

If they want to regulate it that much, they should just hand everyone the car they want people to use and be done with it.