TeamNovak's Lifetime Legacy Trade-In Program

[NovakTwo]

Originally Posted by Semi Pro

how about a warrenty like castle creations, warrenty costs are one of the biggest reasons i havent bought a novak product in the last 2 years

so to upgrade from my HV4400 to a new HV balistic motor would cost $70 plus shipping, even though you can buy the balistic motor for $99 shipped new, i dont mean to sound like a jerk but thats not a good deal

We have not yet shipped our new Ballistic 550 (HV) motors. The street price for this new motor will be 120.00. So, we have not opened exchanges or upgrades to this motor--nor have we established an upgrade price.

Returning your discontinued HV 4400 and upgrading to a HV4.5 2S/SC motor would be 70.00---almost a 30% discount from the HV4.5 "street price".

Returning your discontinued HV 4400 and upgrading to a Ballistic 540 motor would be 70.00---more than a 20% discount from the Ballistic "street price".

Why do you believe we should charge a lot less for upgrading to current products?

[George16]

If Tekin and Castle can offer a free return shipping, why can't you? The great customer service of Castle and Tekin is what's keeping my business with them especially since I'm in the military stationed overseas. They had made/offered a lot of great things for us in the military which include replacement of parts even after the warranty period. They also gave us substantial discount for their products hence more and moremilitary members are getting into the brushed/brushless scene for relaxation.

I still have a Novak goat that I use as a paperweight in my office as a reminder not to ever buy any novak products again.

[NovakTwo]

Originally Posted by George16

If Tekin and Castle can offer a free return shipping, why can't you? The great customer service of Castle and Tekin is what's keeping my business with them especially since I'm in the military stationed overseas. They had made/offered a lot of great things for us in the military which include replacement of parts even after the warranty period. They also gave us substantial discount for their products hence more and moremilitary members are getting into the brushed/brushless scene for relaxation.

I still have a Novak goat that I use as a paperweight in my office as a reminder not to ever buy any novak products again.

We do offer free shipping on warranty returns. We have discussed offering a active-duty Military discount program. Perhaps this summer, we can design and implement such a program.

[Arct1k]

Well my return was due to a short in the stator that took out the ESC... Difficult for that to be anything other than a coil issue but because of the 120days limit I went straight to the upgrade program.

http://rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26406

I must have mis-understood my options - I didn't even think that you'd look at this as a possibility for repair.

[NovakTwo]

Originally Posted by Arct1k

Well my return was due to a short in the stator that took out the ESC... Difficult for that to be anything other than a coil issue but because of the 120days limit I went straight to the upgrade program.

http://rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26406

I must have mis-understood my options - I didn't even think that you'd look at this as a possibility for repair.

We do not generally do any repairs; we switched over to a fixed-price replacement program many years ago. We have a whole department dedicated to re manufacturing items. We completely disassemble (discard all damaged boards/parts), clean the boards (ionic washer) reassemble/rewire and retest all rmf items so we can offer a new warranty.
Having technicians repair customer returns individually, to the point of offering a new warranty, proved far too costly

Most stator damage is due to overheating the motors (mostly due to aggressive timing adjustments); we do not warranty these motors with burnt-out stators. Over heating melts the silicone coating on the wire, which then allows the wire to short out. This damage often demags the rotor too.

[Arct1k]

I would normally agree but this was an 18,5T in a axial scale rock crawler - Its rather hard to over heat one in that use - I thought they also had built in thermal protection or am I mistaken?

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

We do not generally do any repairs; we switched over to a fixed-price replacement program many years ago. We have a whole department dedicated to re manufacturing items. We completely disassemble (discard all damaged boards/parts), clean the boards (ionic washer) reassemble/rewire and retest all rmf items so we can offer a new warranty.
Having technicians repair customer returns individually, to the point of offering a new warranty, proved far too costly

Most stator damage is due to overheating the motors (mostly due to aggressive timing adjustments); we do not warranty these motors with burnt-out stators. Over heating melts the silicone coating on the wire, which then allows the wire to short out. This damage often demags the rotor too.

[Semi Pro]

Originally Posted by Arct1k

I would normally agree but this was an 18,5T in a axial scale rock crawler - Its rather hard to over heat one in that use - I thought they also had built in thermal protection or am I mistaken?

agreed, and what Novak products could the user adjust the timing on before last year?

i had a rotor explode in a 5800ss, it was in a lite weight touring car with 6cell sub-c battery's, it couldn't have been caused by overreving and it never made heat but Novak charged me for replacement. i had 2 HV maxx's fail just after warranty expired. i went threw 3 of the old SS systems in onroad cars ( one ss was stock in a losi XXS but i was told the stock gearing was over geared and i had to pay for it even though it was still underwarrenty) and one gtb that was two weeks old (you guys still have it, i wasn't going to pay for repairs on something that was bran new and was setup right but blamed on me. that was the straw that broke my back and turned me you castle).

every time i had a warranty return it was always blamed on me for reasons that never fit the problem and when i questioned the techs they often would tell me i didn't understand or flat out accuse me of lieing.

novaktwo you asked us what we though and what we would change, and all we really want is Novak to treat us like Castle and Tekin does.

[ta_man]

I think there is another way to look at this program, and it that light its not so bad.

Basically, I see it as an opportunity to purchase Novak products at a slight discount from street price for those that are impatient or can't plan their purchases to take advantage of existing, known discounts.

I need a Ballistic 17.5 for a certain car because the sensor harness comes out the side on the Ballistics. I have a non-working SS17.5. But, since I can plan to take advantage of other discounts (T's for instance), it is un-economic to use the Novak program. I can get a brand new Ballistic 17.5 for less that it would cost to send my totally useless SS17.5 back to Novak and upgrade to a Ballistic.

But for someone who can't plan, or can't wait, they can get the motor for less than buying from the LHS. They just need a toasted or unwanted motor to send in. So for them, it is a good thing. The deals on the ESCs are actually much better than the deals on the motors when viewed in that light.

[simplechamp]

This program seems pretty good to me. I bought a Velociti 7.5R for $40 used and now I can use it as about $50 of credit towards a new Ballistic.

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by simplechamp

This program seems pretty good to me. I bought a Velociti 7.5R for $40 used and now I can use it as about $50 of credit towards a new Ballistic.

????

I don't quite get how that is a good deal. You spent $40 for the motor and you must send Novak an additional $83.65 along with the motor to do the upgrade plus, lets say, at least $3 to mail the motor to them. That's $126.65 for the same new motor you could have bought for $89.99 plus shipping from A-Main or Tower.

[simplechamp]

Originally Posted by ta_man

????

I don't quite get how that is a good deal. You spent $40 for the motor and you must send Novak an additional $83.65 along with the motor to do the upgrade plus, lets say, at least $3 to mail the motor to them. That's $126.65 for the same new motor you could have bought for $89.99 plus shipping from A-Main or Tower.

How do you get $83.65 and $126.65? I send them my motor, and get a new Ballistic for $50, plus $13.65 S/H, and maybe $2-3 for me to send it to them, so close to $65 total I can get a new Ballistic. Considering I've already used my Velociti motor for quite awhile I feel I got my $40 "value" out of it, as far as I'm concerned that $40 (or at least the greater majority) is used up, out of the equation. If you bought a car for $5000, drove it for 5 years, and traded it in towards another $5000 car you wouldn't say that the second car cost $10000. Now the motor has renewed value if I take advantage of the trade-in program. I'm getting more value out of that than if I tried to sell the motor and use the money towards a Ballistic. You can spin the numbers to make it look like a good deal or a bad deal, and it might be good or bad depending on specific situations, but it my mind in my situation it's a good deal.

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by simplechamp

How do you get $83.65 and $126.65? I send them my motor, and get a new Ballistic for $50, plus $13.65 S/H, and maybe $2-3 for me to send it to them, so close to $65 total I can get a new Ballistic. Considering I've already used my Velociti motor for quite awhile I feel I got my $40 "value" out of it, as far as I'm concerned that $40 (or at least the greater majority) is used up, out of the equation. If you bought a car for $5000, drove it for 5 years, and traded it in towards another $5000 car you wouldn't say that the second car cost $10000. Now the motor has renewed value if I take advantage of the trade-in program. I'm getting more value out of that than if I tried to sell the motor and use the money towards a Ballistic. You can spin the numbers to make it look like a good deal or a bad deal, and it might be good or bad depending on specific situations, but it my mind in my situation it's a good deal.

a) You didn't says the 7.5R was an old, used motor. My impression was you just bought it to do the trade-up. That's what frequently happens with Forum posts - small nuances of information don't always come across.

b) The upgrade price to a Ballistic from any motor is $70, not $50. I beleieve you misinterpreted the chart. They have a specific example: "Example (UPGRADE): Trade in SS Pro Spec 13.5 for a Ballistic Spec 13.5 for $70" Try it - you will see. The return S&H is $13.65 for one item. That is how I got $86.65 (including you shipping the motor to them for $3).

So you'll spend $86.65 to send them the motor and do the upgrade, plus part with the 7.5R. If it still runs and isn't damaged, you could sell it easily for $20 and still come out ahead buying a new one from the aforementioned vendors. Novak still gets a sale either way, but the old motor remains in circulation for someone to use, and you save a few $$$.

[NovakTwo]

This program is not for returning items that are still functioning---although customers still do; it works best when you return several items at a time for replacement or upgrade. Functioning items can be easily sold.

Many customers, who use our NW service programs, had requested the option of exchanging (or upgrading) to a completely different item, we decided to formally incorporate the option. We will be eliminating the service charge on any transactions that include at least one upgrade item---this should make the prices more reasonable.

Programs this complex are a challenge to design and manage for a small company, such as us. The only reason we can make all of these options available is because we manufacture all of our products here in Irvine. If we had to depend on imports from China, we could not support such a program---too many potential delays.

When we design a service program, such as this new one, we must be concerned about complaints from our hobby dealers---we want to offer NW service options attractive to our customers, but not offer upgrades so cheaply that we are competing with our dealers. So it's a fine line. We get that customers want a "good deal"---and this deal isn't considered good enough.

We really can't please everybody. There are far too many stakeholders in whatever decisions we make for that. Including an upgrade path for all legacy escs and BL motors we have ever sold, seems like a fantastic offer to me---as well as an option no other R/C company supports. Everyone who purchases a Novak product knows that they can always return it for something newer.

I can't debate any old service transactions unless you wish to PM me your invoice numbers so that I can have CS pull the paperwork for my examination---which I will gladly do for anyone who believes that a given repair was not handled correctly. We have been evaluating customer returns for decades so we have a pretty good idea about what damages electronics.

[simplechamp]

Originally Posted by ta_man

a) You didn't says the 7.5R was an old, used motor. My impression was you just bought it to do the trade-up. That's what frequently happens with Forum posts - small nuances of information don't always come across.

b) The upgrade price to a Ballistic from any motor is $70, not $50. I beleieve you misinterpreted the chart. They have a specific example: "Example (UPGRADE): Trade in SS Pro Spec 13.5 for a Ballistic Spec 13.5 for $70" Try it - you will see. The return S&H is $13.65 for one item. That is how I got $86.65 (including you shipping the motor to them for $3).

So you'll spend $86.65 to send them the motor and do the upgrade, plus part with the 7.5R. If it still runs and isn't damaged, you could sell it easily for $20 and still come out ahead buying a new one from the aforementioned vendors. Novak still gets a sale either way, but the old motor remains in circulation for someone to use, and you save a few $$$.

That chart doesn't seem right to me then. I look in the row that has my motor in it, then slide over to the column where it says "Upgrade to any motor" and it says $50, so then why does the example say $70, which is it? I don't see how the chart could be read any other way.

[E-Revonut]

I've only had one Novak system, HV 4.5 motor and the original HV esc. IMO the motor was decent but the esc wasn't capable. I'm giving them another shot as I just ordered a SS13.5 for my SC10. The class specs a 13.5 so that's what I'm running, of course I'll ne using a MMPro that I ordered at the same time though. If the motor dies, I just hope the rotor is still good so I have a magnet for my fridge! I won't pay the prices that this program asks. I would either use a tower code and buy a new one or just buy something else! Hopefully ity doesn't happen but if it does I hope Castle has some 1/10 ROAR approved motors by then, otherwise it'l be a Tekin