New Arizona SB1070 Law

[pinkpanda3310]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Oh, and in case your blood isn't already boiling, take a gander: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...izona-rancher/

[crazyjr]

I agree with all said above, Any Pro-illegal is aiding and abetting, in my opinion. The Government needs to get Americans working and the illegal group is not helping at all, It's making things worse

[Semi Pro]

we have federal anti illegal immigration laws and AZ is just trying to enforce them because of Phoenix being an amnesty city

[rabosi]

Another thing mentioned is that they(illegals) steal jobs. How exactly does one go about stealing a job? It's always the employer's prerogative who they hire regardless of the excuses they may come up with. I think the difficult thing is trying to figure if illegal labor is an overall plus or a minus. Would the extra cost associated with products for legal labor compensate for the savings on welfare programs?

[TexasSP]

The minimum wage worker thing doesn't fly. Why, because for minimum wage to apply you have to be working under legal status. Illegals will work for less than federal minimum wage.

Again, the issue is with illegal immigrants, regardless of where they are from.

Also, going back in History to the natives and what happened is pointless at this juncture. We are in the here and now dealing with the hear and now. Unless someone has a time machine I don't know about, going back and changing all of that is pointless to talk about.

I am sorry but regardless of what anyone feels the tax paying citizens of a country should be able to decide who can come and go in their country regardless.

You also cannot compare a tax paying business person who gets tax breaks to someone who pays no taxes yet get's subsidies and money from the government. It is in no shape or form the same.

I am also for eliminating the welfare system completely. We have unemployment which is paid into by employees. If you lose your job you should be able to draw unemployment benefits (tax free, I will never understand how a tax subsidy can be taxed again) for up to 6 months and that is it.

I am tired of unrestricted and uncontrolled money flowing out the door in all directions but the focus of this thread is illegal immigration.

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Well I don't know about food cost rising as much as a guy would first think, because as most food processors know, the cost of food is not from the cost of labor of say picking fruits and veggies,

You are correct. But if you took the migrant workers out of the picture, now what happens to the cost of crop maintenance (weed picking, etc), and crop picking. It goes up significantly IMHO, as you wont get Joe Shmo to put down his latte' to go out and do it with out spending some bucks on labor, or expensive machinery to do it.

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I am also for eliminating the welfare system completely. We have unemployment which is paid into by employees. If you lose your job you should be able to draw unemployment benefits (tax free, I will never understand how a tax subsidy can be taxed again) for up to 6 months and that is it.

Can you believe they are extending benenfits for up to 99 weeks now?? Un-freakin'-believable. You cant tell me a person can't get some kind of employment in that kind of time. Yeah, you might have to ditch that home in burbs, but bad things happen....our govt is spending more on putting diapers on all the babies in this country than they are governing.

[DCastaneda]

As an American-born person of Cuban descent, I cannot agree more with instilling immigration laws on the southern border. It is one thing to be a genuine refugee from a country full of oppression such as my family did (legally with an exit visa). But to come over here illegally, avoid taxes, and expect special treatment while you're at it is simply absurd. There's always at least a few Mexicans waiting over at the local Home Depot, Lowes, etc. amongst other locations waiting to be hired illegally and it pisses me off. While so many US citizens including professionals with hard-earned college degrees are left without work.

The hardships of today's economy are very real and illegals are not helping better the situation in the least. I'd rather hire an upstanding, tax-paying citizen more for the same job any day of the week. the problem is many employers look for the easy way out and seek cheap labor. I agree with the idea of some form of official identification/ S.S. for illegal immigrants so they too can be taxed.

Originally Posted by JThiessen

You are correct. But if you took the migrant workers out of the picture, now what happens to the cost of crop maintenance (weed picking, etc), and crop picking. It goes up significantly IMHO, as you wont get Joe Shmo to put down his latte' to go out and do it with out spending some bucks on labor, or expensive machinery to do it.



Can you believe they are extending benenfits for up to 99 weeks now?? Un-freakin'-believable. You cant tell me a person can't get some kind of employment in that kind of time. Yeah, you might have to ditch that home in burbs, but bad things happen....our govt is spending more on putting diapers on all the babies in this country than they are governing.

Good example of this is an acquaintance of mine (friend of a friend) who's milking unemployment for all he can. He gets $800 every month and has been for quite a few months now and blows it all on beer and other non-essentials not even bothering to look for a job, while others work their asses off at minimum wage to get the same amount of money after tax.

This is the kind of crap that needs to end, along with food stamps and any other free aid provided by the government. Socializing medicine only adds insult to injury. And the government facilitating a lazy America only screws who else but the meat of the taxpayers, the middle class. Why not cut the middle man and let me give a portion of my paycheck to the lazy bastards instead of having it spent so inefficiently by our wonderful government of ours?

/end rant

[PBO]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

The minimum wage worker thing doesn't fly. Why, because for minimum wage to apply you have to be working under legal status. Illegals will work for less than federal minimum wage.

Who works in the minimum wage bracket? I'll bet it's not white middle America

Therefore it matters little whether an illegal is paying taxes or not, it matters whether there is an entry point within the wage structure that allows an illegal to work. The lower the min wage, the greater the opportunity for an illegal...who else would do the work that they do

If for example you were to have a higher minimum wage, which narrows the differential between min wage & average wage. This would isolate the illegals to a degree, make them easier to identify (find your closest sweat shop), round up & deport. The trade off is a lesser standard of living for the lower middle class...

[georgec]

The great state of TN has very similar immigration laws to that of AZ. But IMO they don't go far enough. What is there not to get about illegal?

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by PBO

Who works in the minimum wage bracket? I'll bet it's not white middle America

This is kind of a broad statement. Coming from a background in construction and manufacturing, I know many white people who work for the same wages as minorities. Of course the middle class isn't in the minimum wage bracket, after all, they are middle class.

I also know from dealing in maintenance and cleaning services that there are certain immigrants who will undercut others and then use underage workers (family usually, kids, grand kids, nieces, nephews, etc) and pay them little to nothing for their work. This is one of those rampant and ignored issues surrounding illegal immigration. I am not talking teens either, I mean children, some as young as 6. I am positive that it happens elsewhere too.

What is worse is the child sex trafficking going on right underneath everyone's noses. Most want to ignore it but I can take you to numerous places in Houston in which this is present. It's not like you have to look hard. People just don't want to admit it, kind of like the Asian Spa's/Massage Parlor's etcetera which are run by organized crime. But hey the politician's get greased by these guys so the issues get ignored. Then there is the drug trafficking issues as well. But hey, these people are just looking for a better life. Spend a little more time with some illegals and you can find out the true stories and not just what many want you to believe.

This is one of the many problems with illegals, it's not just entering the country illegally, it's violating numerous other laws too. It's not like the money recirculates here either, it get's sent back to their home countries.

That is another major factor people do not pay attention to when looking at the entire picture. You get cheaper labor on the front end but the unseen costs eat you alive. There is a lot more to look at than just the "face value" of the issue.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

This is kind of a broad statement

It was a rhetorical question

It's also a significant difference between Australia & the US (no need to flame me I'm not saying the Australian wages structure is better or the US is worse) that does stand out as a contributing factor to illegal immigration for the US

[TexasSP]

No flaming here, just a discussion.

Sorry I live in Texas so the issue is near and dear to my heart. I also have many Hispanic friends and family so that plays into the mix as well.

[Krawlin]

I didn't want to bother looking through all of the replies, but here is my take on this....


I am 100% for the Arizona immigration law, especially considering that I am only about 35 miles (if that) from the US/Mexico border. Border Patrol helicopters fly over my area pretty often, and Border Patrol trucks stopped on a side of the road with a big line of illegals is a common sight here. If you happen to be in Arizona and follow the news, a rancher was recently killed while riding his quad on his ranch property adjacent to the US/Mexico border, and footprints lead back to the border. Could have been illegals or drug dealers, but around here, stuff like that on the news is common. It's sickening that they are even able to cross the border illegally at all and even cross at places other the usual ports of entry. I'd share my opinions on what should be setup on the border and what it should do to illegal border crossers, but it would be considered "inhumane" so I won't bother.

And honestly, I don't get why all these people are complaining about racial profiling. It's not like cops are going to pull over every "tan skinned black/brown haired Hispanic looking person" they see. It just takes extra time out of their day and if they do make an arrest they have to drive them back to the county jail or w/e it is they take people when they get arrested, and I would bet money that a majority of cops probably wont want to do that all the time.

Also, the people who complain about this law, you have to wonder if they are legal themselves. I mean honestly, is it that big of a deal to give like 5 minutes of your time up to show a police officer you are a US citizen? It's not like it's going to hurt anyone to do that, unless of course they aren't here legally. And my thought is, if they complain about the law, more reason to find out of they are actually legal themselves.

Criminalizing the presence of illegal aliens is by far one of the best laws Arizona has come up with yet. After all, they are "ILLEGAL" aliens, they shouldn't be here in the first place if they are here illegally, so why wasn't this enacted a long time ago? Thanks goes to Jan Brewer, Arizona Governor.

[PBO]

Haha...wasn't expecting a flame

My wife is a legal immigrant to Australia...so the issue is close to home here also

[zeropointbug]

Did you say your wife was an illegal immigrant? Well we better let the authorities know about this.

I see more and more the middle class disappearing, and has been for the last 100 years especially, more so now than ever.