going to buy a rifle---advice?

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Riko

I am personally also somebody that is not in favour for the one or the other.
My ideological preference is social oriented yess, but a general socialist run country is not ideal imo, for reasons you hint at.

A bit of socialism mixed with some libiral views, combining the best of 2 ideoligies is the best thing, I think. However that can sound a bit contradictory :)
(In belgium we had for about 10 years such a government: libirals + lefties (+ green) )




okay, simply said the biggest economic power and (so far) no social welfare to match all that power..that is disturbing.

So, if I were an American with "european" vision, I would be thrilled by Obama's plans...:)




hmm, isn't that almost a stereotipical narrowminded vision of the American tourist going outside his borders and making a arrogant remark?
That sounds like you actual believe that the UK has only poor people DUE to the social system that sucks out all the money and that the US is a country from wich the citizens only have benefits DUE to the lack of a system like in the UK?

please, how many people are in deep shit because of lack of a descent wellfare system?...
it doesn't take a degree in politics to see that the system in america causes a lot of dramatic situations. How many Americans don't have a healt care insurance? 30 million, or more?
And of the ones that do have one, wich of those insurance companies does actually help you out the way it should be I wonder :)


Like I already said, you guys have a history of "absolute freedom in every level" and introducing a system wich is based on solidarity and basically means 'to give money for the greater cause' is not something that will be accepted overnight.

PS: comparing the economic might of the UK with that of the US is not very wise since the UK is many times smaller and has 5 times less inhabitants...
If you would compare the US with the European Union, wich is a Economical Union (a collection of well organized social wellfare states vs the US) that is more like it.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_GDP_(nominal)
So, is our system that bad? or are some of you really that arrogant to deny the facts?

Being British it would be hard to stereotype me as a narrow minded American.

Also, people move to the US for a reason. I cannot imagine it is because they are 100% happy with their socialistic home country...

My father moved from the UK to the US in the 80s, and he will tell you that it is better here. More opportunity to succeed, grow, and prosper.

You may also want to keep in mind that in the UK more than half of the population is employed by the gov't in some way. So the other half get to pay for it (17% VAT is a good start). Big gov't does not do anyone any good, save for the people in power, and who ever they favor.

Also you mention that the UK has 5 times less people, but it is also the size of florida. So there is alot more people per land unit than the US. Not sure what you are getting at with this...

Also, what is the problem with people just paying for what they want? Maybe 30million americans do not have health insurance, but how many of those want to pay for it? Maybe they chose not to pay for ins and just pay when they needed it? Should we nationalize whores too? That way I can go and wait in line for that all day? Pay as you go is a good idea for alot of things, and for people who go to the doctor every 5 years it is way cheaper to pay when you need it.

Base point is that i do not want to pay for other people. Period. People on welfare are not doing anything positive, and if they ceased to exist tomorrow all we would have would be more space and money. Same thing with everything the gov't gets their greedy mitts into. Nothing is done correctly by the gov't (which seems to have an average IQ of 75) and that is why the bulk of us narrow minded republicans do not want the gov't in health care. They will just f it up like everything else they do. And big gov't equals big taxes. Pretty simple to understand that, the more people that are working for the gov't, the more you have to pay, thus the taxes have to go up. Hard to refute that.

Here in the US, mainly thanks to a bunch of pussies, we are catering to the least common denominator. Schools pander to dumb kids, the dumbest people get the most help, and the intelligent people are crucified whenever we point this out. But we are still expected to pay for a bunch of people who do not deserve to be here. We are focused on minorities of all types, instead of doing things that will most benefit the majority of us. Everyone wants something free, and that is all this democratic health care is, another handout to people who refuse to get a real job and step in line with the rest of us.

I will say that it seems a bit arrogant of you to somehow understand how the american society needs this health care without having any experience about how american society works... I am glad socialism is working for your country, and hope that it continues to do that. I can say that it will not work here, for many reasons.

[TexasSP]

I have some very good friends from Belgium that have lived here for the past 10 years that would strongly disagree with you Riko.

In fact he commented that when his wife got breast cancer about 6 years ago how much better our system was and how much quicker and more efficiently she was taken care of than her mother back in Belgium who suffered Breast Cancer under socialized medicine.

More intrensic to me however would really be food, the most basic neceesity to live and undoubtly more so than healthcare. People have lived for many thousands of years without healthcare but no one will last more than a few weeks without sustinence. Maybe everyone should get free food from the government?

Next before healthcare would be shelter, easily the second most important need behind food. Maybe everyone should be entitled to a free house?

The list goes on........

On to the subject at hand, Linc I am with you in the Belgium made Brownings. My dad has 6 which are shared with my brother and I. 1-270, 2 30-06's, 1-243,a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. The are awesome guns!

[riverat1540]

for home defense i recommend a .22 semi automatic handgun. its light nimble and will get the point across. i keep one in my nightstand with bird shot in it. not enough to kill someone but sure will put the sting on especially to the face, after one shot however its real bullets so they better be on their way out by then.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by riverat1540

for home defense i recommend a .22 semi automatic handgun. its light nimble and will get the point across. i keep one in my nightstand with bird shot in it. not enough to kill someone but sure will put the sting on especially to the face, after one shot however its real bullets so they better be on their way out by then.

A .22 might piss off a determined intruder...bird shot would mildly irritate them. I shot a clay pigeon with a 9mm bird shot round and it didn't even break the clay, and that's more powerful than a .22. .22s are great for learning to shoot, plinking, and small varmint but for home defense you need something more substantial. Shotguns truly are the best because they are easier to aim (due to the spread of shot), powerful, but don't over-penetrate like a handgun or rifle. They are readily available and depending on where you live you should be able to get one with a short barrel and pistol grip, which makes it small enough to be usable. 2 3/4" 00 buckshot is very effective, easy to get, and won't kick hard enough that you would need a full stock.

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Unsullied_Spy

......... I shot a clay pigeon with a 9mm bird shot round and it didn't even break the clay,..........

Isn't that called a miss.

[Unsullied_Spy]

Originally Posted by rabosi

Isn't that called a miss.

Not when there are pellet holes in the pigeon

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

On to the subject at hand, Linc I am with you in the Belgium made Brownings. My dad has 6 which are shared with my brother and I. 1-270, 2 30-06's, 1-243,a 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. The are awesome guns!

DOH!....I read this and wondered "didn't I say my Browning was from Belgium?" A quick check, and I see I said Savage (must of been thinking about my Flux or something...). Thanks Tex and Linc for pointing out my................well, you can come up with the term.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I have some very good friends from Belgium that have lived here for the past 10 years that would strongly disagree with you Riko.

In fact he commented that when his wife got breast cancer about 6 years ago how much better our system was and how much quicker and more efficiently she was taken care of than her mother back in Belgium who suffered Breast Cancer under socialized medicine.

wow, I am sorry to hear that....

But I must say you can't generalize that for the whole system + that situation is really not representive, very strange indeed.
There must be more than that going on...

Ow and LOL, thousands of years ago, there weren't that many people living on this planet, and thousands of years ago the diseases were different than today.
Compare now with thousands of years ago is...kinda a desperate argument if you ask me.

Anyhow, I am sorry to hear that from your Belgian friends about the breast cancer situation.

Originally Posted by shaunjohnson

man, poor old Obama has a lot of mess to clean up!
poor guy, what a time to get precedent.

yep, he sure does!
He has the most ungreatful job at the moment + his timing is also very bad to become president.

Financial and economic crisis + the war on terror started by his cowboy predecessor + wanting to drastically change some fundamental things in the US (healtcare being the most obvious one) I hope some the majority of the Americans will reelect him again for another 4 years, but I fear not...

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Riko

.......... his timing is also very bad to become president.

Financial and economic crisis + the war on terror started by his cowboy predecessor + wanting to drastically change some fundamental things in the US (healtcare being the most obvious one) I hope some the majority of the Americans will reelect him again for another 4 years, but I fear not...

I would argue that the timing was perfect. If Bush hadn"t funked things up so badly I don't think Obama gets elected.

[Riko]

Originally Posted by rabosi

I would argue that the timing was perfect. If Bush hadn"t funked things up so badly I don't think Obama gets elected.

I wasn't talking about the moment of his election...(that came perfectly since bush...well you said it)

but I am talking about the years to come and the mess he is facing now

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Riko

I wasn't talking about the moment of his election...(that came perfectly since bush...well you said it)

but I am talking about the years to come and the mess he is facing now

I agree with you on the mess, but I believed that a black man was not getting elected president in this country any time soon, short of what happened in the previous administration. I think that knowing what he now knows, if he had the choice of being president in this mess or not being president at all, he would choose president (as would most people who would run for that office).

[TexasSP]

Thanks, I needed that laugh!

[shaunjohnson]

man, poor old Obama has a lot of mess to clean up!
poor guy, what a time to get precedent.

hmm...double barrel shotgun, first round is blank/birdshot, next one is real?

[Rnemhrd]

Riko, after reading your posts I can tell you were looking for a chance to call us dumb Americans, and start an argument. You posted it must be an historical thing twice trying to get a rise from some one. Auto 5 light 12 Thanks for the shot gun belgium, and I decline your thanks riko! This thread was'nt to bash the US.What is a troll again?

[Riko]

Originally Posted by Rnemhrd

Riko, after reading your posts I can tell you were looking for a chance to call us dumb Americans, and start an argument. You posted it must be an historical thing twice trying to get a rise from some one. Auto 5 light 12 Thanks for the shot gun belgium, and I decline your thanks riko! This thread was'nt to bash the US.What is a troll again?

Rnemhrd, to avoid misunderstanding and flaming in what is still a civil discussion, I want to say that I am not searching or waiting for certain reactions of Amercians so that I can pick at them....this is not the case, okay?
I hope you can believe that, because if I was searching for a pick or a laugh, than I would already be calling you a dumb american since you are giving me the chance with your reply, you are actually the one starting an argument...
But I am not doing that now, it was a good and civil discussion about, health care, politics, and visions. So lets stay adults in this and prove that you can be too.

About my posts, I know what I was saying at first, and at certain times somebody said something that I thought I had to react, and it turned out into a interesting discussion with mutual respect.

So again, pls don't let this be the beginning of a flaming or a "you vs me" or a "US vs all the rest" -discussion, because than I will ignore it, it's not worth it.
And maybe you got some kind of impression of me (wrongly) because I seem the be the only non US member to discuss here :) besides the Australian member :)

And why that provoking rhetorical question? are you trying to start a flaming with that troll thing? just don't...because you are kinda confirming what you are judging me of = a chance to call me dumb non-American (or troll), and start an argument