feigao motors and different escs in buggies

[DwightSchrute]

i found a very economical alternative for my 1/8 basher buggy.

i decided to try a vxl-3S (traxxas) esc with an L sized feigao motor.

the results were very very impressive.

i started with a 7L and went 3S 40C 5000mah and geared it 48/16. i used a velineon fan with no motor fan and some very bald bowties.

me and a buddy did some speed tests and temp readings just to see how it was gonna do. we tested both asphalt and offroad.

he used a rc8 with a tekin rx8 and a castle neu 2650 on 4S
i used a losi 8ight with a vxl-3S with a feigao 7L on 3S.

in a straight drag race geared as close as we could, i usually won. it was usually only by a half a buggy or so, but i won almost every time. we were nose to nose almost the whole way.

after 30 speed runs, he was at 128.3, i was at 136.9.

we then went to the motorcross track and ran fresh packs. both of our cars were equally as fast. there was no visible advantage at all.

we both ran our packs out and took final temp readings. we didn't time how long we ran but my best guess was about 20-25 minutes

his was 154.5 and mine was 171.7.

i think i could get my motor temps down if i had run a heatsink or maybe a fan.

i might have been a little overgeared as well. i usually bash with a 14 or 15t.

i'll try to get some video soon. in the meantime, here's a few pics of the fun:







ENJOY!

This combo is being used in the Slash 4x4 as well. By all reports it performs alot like a VXL, only runs a little cooler, allowing some higher gearing. But with Remanufactured Novak hv 6.5 motors going for $65, I think you would have a better motor, for not alot more dough.

[DwightSchrute]

Originally Posted by asheck

This combo is being used in the Slash 4x4 as well. By all reports it performs alot like a VXL, only runs a little cooler, allowing some higher gearing. But with Remanufactured Novak hv 6.5 motors going for $65, I think you would have a better motor, for not alot more dough.

that's also a great idea. i ran the novak HV 7.5 setup i had and really like novak's motors so i may also pick up a 6.5 as well. i'm wondering though, if you run novak's sensored motor on the vxl-3S if the esc is still considerred waterproof at that point?

[DwightSchrute]

i'm still beating the hell out of this esc....everything is running awsome. i got Mike's feigao motor heatsink/clamp for the feigao out of precaution, but overall, i'm very happy with the results.

i got the "s" sized clamp for the "L" motor. it's a bit shorter than the "L" clamp, but Mike was out of those so i used the "S" size and just ran longer screws from the clamp.

i think i might try racing this soon. i thought i was gonna be running hot, but it's really not at all. i don't even need a motor fan.

i really wanna try the KD HK motor 3500kvL, but they are outta stock at the moment.

anyway, here's a few new pics:




new pro-line bulldog lid.....it's so ugly, i really like it! :)

[Overdriven]

By chance, did you take any temp readings on the esc at all? Curious what it's running at. I'll be trying out an 8xl vxl esc combo in my old ofna buggy today or tommorrow, I'll let you know how it fairs.

[DwightSchrute]

Originally Posted by Overdriven

By chance, did you take any temp readings on the esc at all? Curious what it's running at. I'll be trying out an 8xl vxl esc combo in my old ofna buggy today or tommorrow, I'll let you know how it fairs.

i took various readings, and the esc never got above 130 with the velineon fan.

also, keep in mind that some of the ofna buggies have a higher ring and pinion ratio, so you might gear it on the low side to start out.

i have to gear my LX-1e 51/14 to get a similiar effect my 8ight has at 48/16.

[_paralyzed_]

cheap motors are cheap. I have a 6L and an 540c 8XL that have lasted me a few years in multiple setups.

But I've burned up several feigaos, a kb45 and won't even consider the kd motors.

Cheap motors mean no quality control. Some last and some burn up looking at them.

I only write this so newbs don't go out and waste their money on a feigao or other cheap asian motor.

If you know what you are doing and can afford to gamble with your money these motors may suit your needs, but newbies and those on a budget should stick with what works for sure, Castle or Neu.

My 2 cents.

but newbies and those on a budget should stick with what works for sure, Castle or Neu.

Now while I agree with your general sentiment, this is a pretty narrow view. (to the same newbs) There are lot's of other quality motors available. Just do a search on here, and find the general consensus of it's quality. ( But don't believe what you read about Novak, they are better then some on here will give them credit for :)

[_paralyzed_]

^^^ agreed.

there are several good motor companies, I personally steer clear of the cheap asian motors.

[DwightSchrute]

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

I only write this so newbs don't go out and waste their money on a feigao or other cheap asian motor.

as opposed to what? wasting their money on escs that never seem to work for more than a few months?

imo, it's easier to learn how to gear a (let's call them economical instead of cheap) feigao and make them run cooler than it is to go poor buying escs that you have to keep sending back.

do feigao endbells pop off? yes...solution: buy Mike's clamp, they'll never be an issue again.

do they run hotter than a neu? yes...solution: gear it like you got some common sense and run a fan or heatsink.


remember, traxxas supports Feigao enough to run them in all of their vxl products...are they lighter? yeah..but their slash 4x4 only weights about 6oz less than my 8ight. So, Feigaos can't be all bad.


i spent more than $2000 trying to make a 4-6S setup work in both durability and in cost. the motor technology might be there, but i don't think the esc has caught up yet.

for 2 years i feel like i was wishing in one hand, and shitting in the other.

i appreciate your opinion, but if you wanna call out statistics, i'd bet my G-Maxx there are more esc returns then there are chinese motor returns.

the only point of this thread was to point out a setup that HAS worked for me that is alot more economical and might i say durable than any i have ever used.


that being said, i'm not trying to bash any company. in fact, all my experiences with returns and customer service has been phenominal. i'm, just tired of having to buy "backups".



so......
my next project is to tackle my G-4 with a twin velineon, dual 5XL 3300KV or dual 580L's on 3S. i think that bitch is gonna be sick.

remember, traxxas supports Feigao enough to run them in all of their vxl products...are they lighter? yeah..but their slash 4x4 only weights about 6oz less than my 8ight. So, Feigaos can't be all bad.

Bad debate point. In my Slash 4x4, which weighs about 8oz's less then a regular one, the VXL must be ran 11/54,the lowest possible gearing, on 3s, for right under 40mph, and temps around 160. Also look at all the temp issues in the Rustler, and Pede. You gear for over 50, and temp issues become apparent. Their inefficiencies at higher wattage is obvious.

I think Harold's point of quality control is valid. It's hard to guarantee a performance output from a motor, when results are mixed . I've seen people claim 50mph bashing speed from the XL motors, but know mine couldn't handle 40. I think it would be a hard assumption to make, that everyone will have as good of results as you are.

But as always I like hearing them, so by all means, keep sharing :)

[DwightSchrute]

Originally Posted by asheck

Bad debate point. In my Slash 4x4, which weighs about 8oz's less then a regular one, the VXL must be ran 11/54,the lowest possible gearing, on 3s, for right under 40mph, and temps around 160. Also look at all the temp issues in the Rustler, and Pede. You gear for over 50, and temp issues become apparent. Their inefficiencies at higher wattage is obvious.

I think Harold's point of quality control is valid. It's hard to guarantee a performance output from a motor, when results are mixed . I've seen people claim 50mph bashing speed from the XL motors, but know mine couldn't handle 40. I think it would be a hard assumption to make, that everyone will have as good of results as you are.

But as always I like hearing them, so by all means, keep sharing :)

But isn't your slash 4x4 running on maxx sized tires? aka the slash truggy?

i'm not sure why you're limited in your gearing except maybe that.

maybe it's your application?
my buddy runs his backslash on 2S at the track with no heat issues.
he runs 3S on the street with no issues.(geared fairly high)
he runs 3S in the grass with no issues (not sure of the gearing there)

in my 8ight, i'm running 48/16 with zero issues.

here again, i'm wondering how much performance difference there is in application buggy to buggy between a neu and a feigao besides a little torque and heat? cause it's definately not in speed.

as far as the feigaos in the rustlers, people just tend to overgear the shit out of those cause they think they can go 70 in the grass. we both know that's gonna make for a short ass motor life.

however, when geared correctly, i almost never had an issue with heat. maybe it's cause i started out with hot motors, and it forced me to learn to gear things more technically, but i really see no more advantage in application except in MT's at this point.

I can see where a neu would be needed in a LST.

your last point on quality control is noted, but i don't know how much it goes to saying their less effecient than an esc that only works a few times before i had to send it back.

like i said..it kinda depends where you wanna roll the dice..on the esc or motor...my money's on the motor for now.

I have 2 4x4 Slashes, the Maxxslash, and a ST Slash, It's lost quite a bit of weight, and runs a ST body. But 11/54 is the lowest gearing that will fit. I'm sure there's a difference in how it gets ran where, and a Backslash should even be lighter. So those things do play into it.

here again, i'm wondering how much performance difference there is in application buggy to buggy between a neu and a feigao besides a little torque and heat? cause it's definately not in speed.

But heat is speed.

his was 154.5 and mine was 171.7.

What would happen if you were geared for the same temp? Since technically the heat of the motor is what determines what speed the motor can handle. You might be able to get another 10mph out of a Neu, before the temps would be equal. Maybe you could test that next.

an esc that only works a few times before i had to send it back.

See, I don't get this. I bought an original V1, it blew. I got a V2 , it was good till the case came apart, and the board bounced around. I got a V3 as a replacement, and have had no trouble since. Those are the only 2 esc's that I have had fail, in my MT's. On the flip side, I've returned ,IIRC, 4 VXL esc's in for replacement in the same time period .
Of course I run 4s 95% of the time, with BIGGER, BADDER, BATTERIES, remember, they make better brushless bashers. :) , perhaps that plays into it.

like i said..it kinda depends where you wanna roll the dice..on the esc or motor...my money's on the motor for now.

Well let's see how this plays out, before you get your payout. I'm betting by the end of summer, this system is no longer being ran.

[DwightSchrute]

Originally Posted by asheck

But heat is speed. What would happen if you were geared for the same temp? Since technically the heat of the motor is what determines what speed the motor can handle. You might be able to get another 10mph out of a Neu, before the temps would be equal. Maybe you could test that next.

.

i agree with you there. the neu will be faster if it can be geared higher for a longer period of time...such as a track for lap times.

however,for high speed runs...there is no short term advantage i can see. the neus are so overpowered, any added power is almost instantly lost in wheel spin...atleast on the lighter cars.

Originally Posted by asheck

See, I don't get this. I bought an original V1, it blew. I got a V2 , it was good till the case came apart, and the board bounced around. I got a V3 as a replacement, and have had no trouble since. Those are the only 2 esc's that I have had fail, in my MT's. On the flip side, I've returned ,IIRC, 4 VXL esc's in for replacement in the same time period .
Of course I run 4s 95% of the time, with BIGGER, BADDER, BATTERIES, remember, they make better brushless bashers. :) , perhaps that plays into it.

i can tell you why...it's how we run. you consistantly run them how they should be. i never did.

it was either for extreme speed or extreme high jumping.

batteries imo never factored into it. i have top of the line packs i use almost as much as my turnigy packs.

in the beginning, i ran for flat out haul ass speed. then after i got tired of that i decided i wanted to bash.

however, am i happy with pretty fast?? nope..gotta be light my ass on fire fast.

same with the jumping...i wasn't happy with racing it, i wanted to launch it over my house a dozen times in a row.


imo, the velineon has taken more abuse than any of the other escs i've owned...and i've owned alot.

Originally Posted by asheck

Well let's see how this plays out, before you get your payout. I'm betting by the end of summer, this system is no longer being ran.

count on it.

[_paralyzed_]

I'm not bashing your setup, Dwight, not by any means. I even agree that the vxl esc has a better publicized track record than the MMM. I personally am still running a V1 MMM. But I didn't mention esc's until this post. I was talking motors.

Asian motors are less efficient due to lesser materials and there simply isn't quality control.

Any American or German made motor is more efficient and more forgiving to setups that aren't ideal. Their increased efficiency equates to longer runtimes, something everybody wants and pays for, and it makes an easier load for esc's. (which you seem to like to break)

I'm a function over form guy and a tight penny pinching scrooge. I personally would never reccomend an asian motor to anyone based on my experiences. That's saying a lot considering they are half the money or less.


I'm glad to hear you finally have a setup you like and can use. I hope it holds up for you. I'll be watching, oh yes.