1s esc from castle

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Well then, if that's what the're after, they need an rpm limiter module. That way, no matter what ESC or motor or voltage is used, all the cars will be the same speed.

RPM limiter is unrealistic. It won't solve the problem (even if all the manufacturers agreed to put one on) because it is not just about RPM but power output. You ought to know that, Brian. You would need different RPM limits for the different motors. Way too complicated for no real benefit. The RPM limiter they use now is the wind of the motor and it works better than anything else.

Originally Posted by lutach

What rules . I mean, rules are fine, but to a certain extent. Not allowing one to use a ESC because it has kick ass technology, that's total BS. Like I mentioned before, a ROAR director has said 4 and 6 pole sensored motors are legal and yes I'm trying to get a few made. If Castle or any other company comes out with one before it'll be great and then we will see how this so called sanctions or clubs will treat them.

As stated above, it is not being disallowed because of the technology but to keep the speed of the classes in the range that they were designed for without making people switch motors mid season.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by ta_man

As stated above, it is not being disallowed because of the technology but to keep the speed of the classes in the range that they were designed for with making people switch motors mid season.

Ok, now I got it.

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by lutach

I have to agree with this one, but how is this fair for the manufacturer? If Castle has a better product then the over priced ones, then it would be awesome for Castle to enjoy some profit, not on a over priced unit, but one made here in the US. Not only that, a lot of LHS would also enjoy selling some more ESCs in these hard times. I know they're struggling, so a ESC like the MMP which is not expensing, would be nice for them. When I raced a Xtreme RC Addicts, I used my 21.5T motor with 4 cell NiMH and everyone else was running a 17.5T or 13.5T with 1S lipos. My car was not set up properly, but I could still keep up with them. So would my ESC be banned as well and it doesn't even have A.T. in it?

Edit: So how many ESC are there without A.T. at them moment? Novak and Losi?

If castle was producing more ESC than they could sell, I might feel sorry for them about two teensy, weensy, minisucle parts of the RC scene banning their ESCs. But they are not. I've got one on backorder for a few weeks now. They obviously sold enough of the December 1S pre-order lot (at the retail price) to be doing another pre-order lot for January.

That your 21.5 would keep up with the 17.5/13.5 shows the folly of RPM limiting. Were you running 1/12th scale oval? If not, the comparison does not apply.

The Tekin technically has A.T. but it isn't done in a manner that makes as much of a difference as C.H.E.A.T. mode.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by ta_man

The Tekin technically has A.T but it isn't done in a manner that makes as much of a difference as C.H.E.A.T. mode.

To be honest -- we designed C.H.E.A.T. (Castle High Energy Advanced Timing) mode to show ROAR how bad their rules are. ROAR doesn't really seem to care that their rules for brushless motors and ESCs need a lot of work... and they have stopped taking input from manufacturers on the rules. (At least officially)

There are several more steps we can take to get even more power than C.H.E.A.T. mode, so expect incremental increases in power over the next couple years as we release new hardware and new software. And expect the rest of the pack to continue to follow our lead.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by ta_man

If castle was producing more ESC than they could sell, I might feel sorry for them about two teensy, weensy, minisucle parts of the RC scene banning their ESCs. But they are not. I've got one on backorder for a few weeks now. They obviously sold enough of the December 1S pre-order lot (at the retail price) to be doing another pre-order lot for January.

That your 21.5 would keep up with the 17.5/13.5 shows the folly of RPM limiting. Were you running 1/12th scale oval? If not, the comparison does not apply.

The Tekin technically has A.T. but it isn't done in a manner that makes as much of a difference as C.H.E.A.T. mode.

BUT LRP has A.T., and they are legal. What gives?

[ta_man]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

To be honest -- we designed C.H.E.A.T. (Castle High Energy Advanced Timing) mode to show ROAR how bad their rules are. ROAR doesn't really seem to care that their rules for brushless motors and ESCs need a lot of work... and they have stopped taking input from manufacturers on the rules. (At least officially)

There are several more steps we can take to get even more power than C.H.E.A.T. mode, so expect incremental increases in power over the next couple years as we release new hardware and new software. And expect the rest of the pack to continue to follow our lead.

Patrick, I love it. I love that the Pro is turning the Oval (and many other) world upside down. I just wish your tech support people knew more about how to best use this technology. I called today to ask about how bets to use it and the guy I talked to didn't really have good info for me.

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

BUT LRP has A.T., and they are legal. What gives?

Theirs isn't as good as yours!

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by ta_man

RPM limiter is unrealistic. It won't solve the problem (even if all the manufacturers agreed to put one on) because it is not just about RPM but power output. You ought to know that, Brian. You would need different RPM limits for the different motors. Way too complicated for no real benefit. The RPM limiter they use now is the wind of the motor and it works better than anything else.

It was more of a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek response. I think this whole thing is ridiculous. For a given voltage, a motor can only spin so fast. Period. The thing here is efficiency. So, because other companies don't/can't make a controller that is as efficient, CC has to suffer? It's not like they're using a switching step-up power supply or anything. And it's not about who has the most money wins since the MMpro1s is cheaper than just about everything else out there.

If they want to regulate it that much, they should just hand everyone the car they want people to use and be done with it.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by BrianG

It was more of a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek response. I think this whole thing is ridiculous. For a given voltage, a motor can only spin so fast. Period. ALl the other bells and whistles simply make the motor go as close to kv*voltage as possible. The thing here is efficiency. So, because other companies don't/can't make a controller that is as efficient, CC has to suffer? It's not like they're using a switching step-up power supply or anything. And it's not about who has the most money wins since the MMpro1s is cheaper than just about everything else out there.

If they want to regulate it that much, they should just hand everyone the car they want people to use and be done with it.

Actually Brian, we are making the motor go way above Kv*V, by using some timing and commutation tricks -- So they do have a point. But we didn't start it, LRP and Tekin had variable timing way before we did. We just took it a little further, and added some commutation tricks in...

We are also producing a lot more power -- for example, a 21.5 turn motor with fixed timing produces about 108 watts at the 50% efficiency point (I know- - the design of the motor is TERRIBLE!) We are getting about 190 watts output from the same motor at the 50% efficiency point, by changing the timing and commutation method.

If the ROAR motor wasn't so badly designed in the first place, we wouldn't be able to use software "trickery" to make the motor perform better (at least not by the same magnitude...)

[BrianG]

I had edited my original post because I realized that kv*voltage error as well. A braincramp moment. Regardless, as you say, other people are doing these "tricks", how is it your fault that their algorithms are not as good? There is nothing stopping them from improving their designs after all (unless of course their designs are not updateable, which again is not your fault).

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Point taken. Regardless, as you say, other people are doing these "tricks", how is it your fault that their algorithms are not as good? There is nothing stopping them from improving their designs after all (unless of course their designs are not updateable, which again is not your fault).

I agree with you. But I also understand where they are coming from - -the 1S Mamba Pro is limited production, and to compete, everyone would have to buy a Mamba Pro.

I'd like that (of course) -- but I do understand the need to keep the classes even.

Wow thats some really cool info Patrick. I can't wait for the "updates" to get even more power, you just changed my mind on which 1s speedo im buying, I can't believe I was even thinking of going with another brand.

I assume the future power updates will also work for the regular MMP as well? As I have one that I run in my VTA car as well.