WhataNut FMA PowerLab8 1000W charger

[BrianG]

The cost for the charger itself would be more expensive, yes, but not really once you figure in the cost of a safe/proper external PS. The more advanced user can make a high current supply using server parts or whatever, but not the average Joe. Putting two of those server supplies in series for 24v has to be done a special way to be safe, and even then, it's not the way they are intended to be used.

To boost sales for those "high-end" chargers would simply be a matter of marketing. Show a price comparison of individual components vs the more expensive (and safer) included PS model and even ordinary people will quickly see the advantages. And people like Jerry2kone, who want a proper, manufacturer-designed supply will be satisfied.

Also, how many hobbyists have you seen get confused by what supply they need? I've seen numerous threads around various forums where people try to use a low current 12v supply and wonder why their charger errors out and/or won't have full output. Putting the supply in the charger is safer and will have the necessary rating required. No more guesswork.

[feistyacorn]

Originally Posted by BIG-block

What charger are you using Jerry? Most chargers these days can take more than 12V and all the big power chargers need at least 24V. The PowerLab8 will not be able to charge at much more than 500W with only a 12V input regardless of the current that that the PSU can supply. In fact the PowerLab8 can handle up to 32V.

For you if you have a high end charger you are better off getting something like this PSU. CLICK HERE Mean Well have a pretty solid reputation from what I can gather reading the net. Also the unit in the link is switchable between 120V and 240V AC so you should be able to take it anywhere around the world.

I am leaning towards this unit. CLICK HERE. It should be a pretty close match for the PowerLab8. The only thing about it is that it isn't meant to operate below 180V AC so it wont be much use to you guys in US. For me it will be perfect.

That second Meanwell looks nice! I sent a email to Revolectrix a while ago asking about PSUs. They like Meanwell, Mastech, and Iota. I was looking at getting this Iota. I might end up getting this one because it looks like the 24v 40amp unit requires a 120v 20amp line. I'm not sure what our track has for power, but it would require me to add a 20 amp line to my hobby room. What are others doing for the PSUs that are "high watt"?

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by feistyacorn

T...it looks like the 24v 40amp unit requires a 120v 20amp line. I'm not sure what our track has for power, but it would require me to add a 20 amp line to my hobby room. What are others doing for the PSUs that are "high watt"?

That doesn't makes sense. 24v @ 40A is "only" 960w. Once you figure in efficiency losses (~15%) and AC power factor, you should only need ~10A @ 120v. Maybe they recommend a 20A line because the load looks highly inductive (rather than resistive)? But this would show up in the power factor rating, but could be compensated via power factor correction circuits (most high -power/end computer PS units use this).

[JERRY2KONE]

See now that makes sense to me BG. I am not an electrical geneous so I have been wondering the same thing. Why make all of these chargers and PSU's so different from each other complicating our ability to charge one type of battery, but not another, or one that charges up to 6S while another charges only 3S. I would think by now that most of the manufacturers should have a pretty solid idea what we do in our hobby and what we need in general. So why not make a universal psu and charger that will do the job. Just have one that can handle lower voltage batteries and one for higher voltage which would define the difference between novice hobbiests and more seasoned vets.

Just looking at the PowerLab8 makes me wonder why not create a matching PSU that will work as a package deal and will allow one to use the charger to its full capacity. Plus make it compatible for voltage inputs 12V DC, 24v DC, and also 50-240volts AC. I mean they have been doing this sort of thing with laptops and other electronic gear now for a while so we know the technology is out there.

In fact why not take it one step further and create one complete unit that does everything the PowerLab8 does with a built in PSU with the specs we would all like to see? Then charge a reasonable price for it. Chargers and PSU's combined for that range come in at around $600 to $800 now, so put one together in one neat package for $500-$600 and call it a day. We all know they would sell like waffles at a Belgian concert.

[snellemin]

Green Flame stickers would be excellent for marketing.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

...In fact why not take it one step further and create one complete unit that does everything the PowerLab8 does with a built in PSU with the specs we would all like to see? Then charge a reasonable price for it. Chargers and PSU's combined for that range come in at around $600 to $800 now, so put one together in one neat package for $500-$600 and call it a day. We all know they would sell like waffles at a Belgian concert.

That's kinda what I'm saying; put the proper PS inside the charger that will accept 12v DC (for field use with no mains power available) and 120/240v AC (for bench use) and be done with it.

Snellemin: I personally don't like to see flames of any kind on my electronic components; flames=something is wrong.

[JERRY2KONE]

Originally Posted by BrianG

That's kinda what I'm saying; put the proper PS inside the charger that will accept 12v DC (for field use with no mains power available) and 120/240v AC (for bench use) and be done with it.

Well there ya go BG. Now you have a product, and you already have the business snense. So when will your first prototype be out????? I am sure that there are plenty of gents in here who would love to do some BETA testing for ya. You don't have to use the best materials in the world. Just use fair quality and come up with a great finished product that looks halfway desent.

I do like the look of the Muchmore Legacy setup. The PSU with two chargers mounted on top of it looks very nice. Something along those lines, but one combined unit would be a great sell.

I mean we all know the bottom line here is that we want to be able to purchase a single unit and have the ability to charge two 8S lipos side-by-side to full power and capacity within 10 to 15 minutes. Ready to race, right. Is this really that hard to accomplish???

Yea I think that flames idea helps to cover up the idea that their batteries might go up in flames at some point, but it will look cool and just blend in with the shrinkwrap design.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

Well there ya go BG. Now you have a product, and you already have the business snense. So when will your first prototype be out????? ...

It will be out April 1st.

Seriously, developing a charger from the ground up would be reinventing the wheel, not to mention trying to compete against mass-produced products would be an exercise in futility. Rather, current manufacturers should get the hint and make the changes to their products.

[feistyacorn]

Originally Posted by BrianG

That doesn't makes sense. 24v @ 40A is "only" 960w. Once you figure in efficiency losses (~15%) and AC power factor, you should only need ~10A @ 120v. Maybe they recommend a 20A line because the load looks highly inductive (rather than resistive)? But this would show up in the power factor rating, but could be compensated via power factor correction circuits (most high -power/end computer PS units use this).

When I was first looking at PSUs thats that I thought, but the cutsheet on the IOTA says that its Continuous Maximum Power Output is 1100 watts and its Maximum AC Current @ 108VAC is 20 amps. You are 100% right - a powerful all in one charger would be bad ass!

[JERRY2KONE]

Originally Posted by feistyacorn

When I was first looking at PSUs thats that I thought, but the cutsheet on the IOTA says that its Continuous Maximum Power Output is 1100 watts and its Maximum AC Current @ 108VAC is 20 amps. You are 100% right - a powerful all in one charger would be bad ass!

OK so who has the inside track with any of these charger and PSU developers that can get some suggestions on the board so that maybe there could be a good setup in the making soon. Maybe they just don't get it, and they need someone from our hobby to sell them on the idea so they can understand what we want and what we need.

I mean look at MA and how they just throw Crap together in a garage and sell it like it was the best thing since sliced bread. They even put false statements on them with some cute stickers and people still buy them. How hard can this be for God sakes?

[snellemin]

I thought I blew the charger, by messing up the balancing wires while the charger was active. I didn't blew fuses, but did hear some popping. Long story short, I opened the bad boy and saw that the current limiter was popped. I was only able to charge through the balancing cables. Digikey to the rescue and all is well again. This time I bought me some parallel balancing adapters to prevent me from goofing off again.

[MindThoughts]

Yikes-
Will you please tell us exactly what you did, in order that we may avoid such a mistake?

PS. I'm glad you didn't get your fingers burned, nor get a shock. I'm also glad your charger is still working properly :)

Originally Posted by snellemin

I thought I blew the charger, by messing up the balancing wires while the charger was active. I didn't blew fuses, but did hear some popping. Long story short, I opened the bad boy and saw that the current limiter was popped. I was only able to charge through the balancing cables. Digikey to the rescue and all is well again. This time I bought me some parallel balancing adapters to prevent me from goofing off again.

[snellemin]

I was in a rush with getting into the house, but wanted to charge my batteries for the next day. So I charged one pack and when it finished I just unplugged the balancing wires and power cable. My mistake was not hitting the stop button when the charging was done. The charger was still active when I plugged in the next set of batteries, which isn't a problem unless you plug them in wrong.

[MindThoughts]

Thank you for the picture and detailed account of your experience.

What will you do next, in order to repair the damaged part? It may be a very low fee to send the charger back in to the manufacturer for a repair estimate, and or maybe this part could be processed under warranty. I do not know for sure. I also wonder if any aditional part or parts may have been damaged, beyond the one piece we can see in the picture. What are your thoughts about this at this point in time?

Note: Now that Thunder Power is offering their G6 series LiPo battery which can accept a 12c balanced charge rate, with said no discernible cycle life loss, nor battery damage- I'm very interested if our PowerLab 8 CellPro Chargers can accept another Firmware update which would allow this model charger to charge at an amperage of possibly 50amps, or even 60amps; or more.

I remember speaking with FMA Direct's Tech Support Howard Matos. Howard at that time- which was many months before the PowerLab 8 Charger was released for sale, and FMA Direct was accepting pre order payments at a reduced price to anyone that would like to pay in advance. I had ask Howard why they did not make the charger more powerful than 30amps- which at that time was the said limit of the chargers power, abilities; and potential. Howard explain that the 30amps was the safe limit of charging power for the hardware in the charger.

Many months later after I received my PowerLab 8 charger, I learn that there was a firmware update which permit an additional 10amps of charging power. Simply with a five minute free firmware update to the charger, now permitting a 40amp balanced charge rate.

When I ask Howard how this was possible, when he had previously explain to me that the hardware would not handle any more power; Howard then explain that this was previously kept secret in order that anyone building chargers that would match the original 30amps of power, would no longer be able to compete with the now more powerful 40amp PowerLab 8. And sure enough- I've seen a couple different 30amp chargers on the market- but only the CellPro PowerLab 8 can balance charge at 40amps.

This makes me wonder if the CellPro PowerLab 8 is still capable of more power by way of an additional firmware update, than the now 40amp limit of the charger. I still find it quite amazing that I use to go to the RC track with a small case of batteries and five chargers, all charging at 1c or 5amps for a 5000mah LiPo. Now I bring my one PowerLab 8 40amp 1344watt Balance Charger, and two- 2cells, running one 2cell while charging the other. In my 1/8th scale Hyper 9E I'm running 18 minutes at race speeds with the 50c 5200mah 2cell batteries, and the charger is always complete with charging well before I get back to the pit area for a battery change. The 50c 5200mah cells are the G4 technology, I believe. Thunder Power already has the G6 series available and these newer technology batteries can accept a 12c quick charge rating.

The next test I will be conducting will be running a battery with just enough Mah(+ a little extra Mah to prevent from overdischarging the battery) to complete a 5 minute qualifier, and possibly another battery with the minimum Mah/Capacity to complete a 7 minute main. Based on the fact that my run time is 18 minutes, and I'm charging 4500Mah back into the 5200mah 2cell(note LiPo cut-off set to 3.3volts per cell) on the Mamba Max Pro Speed Control- I may be able to use one 2cell 3300Mah or possibly one 3cell 3300Mah 65c if extra power is needed. This minimizing of battery capacity/Mah would be primarily to reduce unused- weight(battery capacity) in the qualifier and main race.

Note: The reason I'm able to run one- 2cell LiPo in a 1/8th scale buggy is because I believe the full carbon fiber kit(by Matrix Concepts Inc) reduces the overall weight of the buggy enough that I'm able to also run a short course truck motor(Steve Neu/Castle) 1409 1Y 3600kv which is the same exact size as the Novak 17.5 stock 2wheel drive 1/10th scale buggy motor- in terms of outer motor can diameter and length, and weighs only 219grams- and has a 5mm pinion gear shaft(accepts Mod 1 Pinion Gears). The buggy is as fast, if not faster than any of the buggies running standard 1/8th scale motors- powered by 4cell at 14.8volts.

PS. If anyone is aware of a Balancing Charger which charges at a rate beyond 40amps, please post onto this thread the link and any information. Even if the model is not yet released- but in the design stage of the process :) any information will be greatly appreciated. As said by other RC enthusiasts the world over- a huge step in the right direction would be to integrate the power
supply into these high powered balance chargers.

[snellemin]

I've allready repaired the Powerlab. It would of taken more time and cost more for me to send it out to get repaired. With me ordering the parts from Digikey, I was only out of a high amp charger for a few days, instead of a few weeks.

It would be nice to have a 50A option. Not so much to charge a single pack at 50A, but for parallel charging. Currently I'm charging four 5000mah 4s packs in parallel. I could make a new board, so I can do charge the 4 packs as two 8s packs. But I would need one hell of a power supply to do so.